42 Comments

Take a 12 Step ‘Sponsor’s’ Advice? Not On Your Life!

This is an all too common story.  This man died because he believed he was powerless and due to dangerous advice from his 12 step sponsor.  There are many, many cases where the advice from a sponsor has directly caused damage both psychologically and physically.  These people have no business advising you how to train your dog, let alone how to live your life.  Because this type of thing is so rampant ‘in the rooms’ the AAWS (alcoholics anonymous world services) has acknowledged the problem … and chosen to do nothing about it.  I hope this family sues AAWS and Steven’s sponsor, for they are most certainly are culpable.  They have a duty of care for which they neglect daily around the world.

http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/preventable-death/content?oid=15280

The link below is directly from AAWS guidelines.  Not only do they know these types of atrocities are happening, they are choosing to remain blind with excuses of ‘outside issues’ and ‘anonymity.’

http://www.aa.org/pdf/products/p-11_aamembersMedDrug.pdf

42 comments on “Take a 12 Step ‘Sponsor’s’ Advice? Not On Your Life!

  1. My sponsor and her husband decided that I should help them launch a new business when theirs started failing. She told me I should probably get a new sponsor, and they made lots of promises of how much money we were going to make. I basically did everything, carted them around and spent money to pay for their meals. I built the website, called on contractors, made apppointments – all while she basically watched on. I looked up to them like Gods. They could do no wrong. My family and friends told me they were using me, but I wouldn’t hear it. Eventually, I woke up to what they were doing. I’ll never forget the horrible feelings of rage and betrayal I felt after that. I “worked” for them for six months and never saw a dime – even when they won a lawsuit against a vendor that hadn’t paid them and made them go out of business with their first company. I had two years of “sobriety” at the time and was still extremely vulnerable.

    • Thanks for the great example of the dangers of listening to people who really should be incarcerated. 12 step programs attract people like this like flies to shit. They know they can get away with murder. sometimes literally, and completely avoid responsibility. I am so sorry for your pain. Yes, you were extremely vulnerable and they took advantage of you. Your feelings are normal and I hope it helps to talk about them. The good news is that you are most certainly not alone. More good news is that you got out!

      It’s interesting that they blame the vendor for their inability to stay in business. Just another example of their inability to take responsibility for their actions and choices. Addiction is not a disease, it is a choice. Since they have been brainwashed to believe they have a disease over which they have no power, they are always going to take advantage of the vulnerable and avoid any responsibility. If not you, someone else. That’s just how steppers roll.

      It’s also interesting how strong the brainwashing. You say you looked up to them like gods and they could do no wrong. That is precisely where they need you to be to take full advantage of you. However, you need not carry any shame on your part. Again, if not you, the next vulnerable person to walk in the door. Hell, they probably met in AA and have no other place to go, no life beyond the cult religious life they have accepted for themselves. They are losers and will most likely die losers. That is sad and pathetic … and not your problem. They get what they deserve.

      How about sending them an invoice for all your hours and months of hard work? You will never see any compensation, but it sure is fun to imagine them receiving your invoice. Have a great day lady.

  2. Oh, and everybody in the meetings was telling me to look at “my part” in it!!! OMG!!! It still took me 3-1/2 more years of this b.s. before I found the strength to leave for good. Love your blog, Laura. It helps so much to read what I have felt to be true, yet have not been able to talk about it with anyone who could really understand. xoxo

    • Yeah, and your only ‘part’ in in was trusting those assholes. The end. You’re free now! Happy, joyous and free. ; )

    • Funny how it always circles back to “look at YOUR part in it” This is a makeshift cookie cutter reasoning that has zero logic and zero positive outcome, as your situation proves.

      • You could say, “Was my part coming in here? I don’t get it.”

      • Perhaps those COERCED to attend 12 Step meetings ought to begin SCREAMING, “MY PART IN IT IS I AM A HOSTAGE! PLEASE SIGN MY CARD AND LET ME BE FREE!” 😉

        • Everyone in a 12 step meeting is coerced either by ‘rehabs’ family, employer, cultural fallacies or the courts. Yes, those with court slips should have their slips signed at the beginning of the meeting and then be allowed to leave. Of course, for those sentenced by a judge, their legal rights are being breached and they should not be required to be there at all.

          • This is why the “attack” against coerced attendance to 12 Step meetings needs to be made TO the judges, and other “coercing authorities”. The “Inoyve vs. Kemna” decision (2007-U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals) allows a coercing authority to be SUED by a coerced person for being forced to attend a 12 Step meeting, and not being given ANY OTHER options (e.g. secular ones!). If a few more coercing authorities can be sued, then maybe these idiots will CUT OFF the flow of bodies! When the 12 Step groups start DYING OFF from the starvation of lack of bodies, the world (of recovery and otherwise!) will be countlessly better for it!

            • No doubt. 12 step groups are already dying off. When the illegal mandating stops, the meetings will REALLY die off. As people realize how dangerous this cult religion is whether predators are sentenced there or not, and people learn of all the evidence-based help available … it’s all but over. The ‘program’ will always be around for those who really do not want to get better and want to avoid any responsibility for their actions and blame everything on their ‘disease’ of ‘powerlessness.’ For the remainder, there is real help available.

  3. “There are many, many cases where the advice from a sponsor has directly caused damage both psychologically and physically. These people have no business advising you how to train your dog, let alone how to live your life.”

    Here! Here!

    I recently ended up in a debate about this with a friend of mine who is a substance abuse counselor at a hospital. She said, “You are going to have to let go of this “THING” you have against AA just because it didn’t help you. AA does help some people!”

    I said, “And AA kills some people too!”

    Then she explained to me that as a substance abuse counselor in a large hospital if she did not support the use of AA for clients, she would lose her job.

    WOW!

    That says a LOT, does it not.

    There is no point of ever debating with her again in my opinion because she is not allowed to really have one.

    Have you looked at the breathtaking implications of what the recent activation of Bush’s Parity Law for Mental Health and Substance Abuse are in the face of Obama’s Affordable Healthcare Act?

    If this 12 step con game is not exposed…many more people will be harmed before it gets better…and that is already the case.

    SEE: http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/08/health/hhs-mental-health/

    • Not surprising in the least that if she did not tow the AA party line she will lose her job. Also, the personal attack of “you have to let go of this thing you have against AA just because it didn’t help you” is all too common. (Even those who work In the field who have not been brainwashed) are hit with that nonsense. They are brainwashed to believe that it truly does work if you just work it. When in truth, “working it” means allowing them to force their religion on you. They convince the prospect (newcomer, pigeon, baby) that AA’s words have their own special meaning, that god is not a supernatural being and that the AA religion isn’t religious, it’s spiritual medicine. BILLshit.

      Thank you for that link!

  4. My wife and I recently experienced an eerily similar situation, though not as extreme as Steven’s. I went into a recovery home last year, which is heavily based on AA’s steps and traditions. I had an option of staying either 28 days or 90 days. I opted for the former, as I needed to return to work for financial reasons. While in there, my wife had left me, unbeknownst to me, but as a result of my drinking. However, during this time she was in communication with a woman who “sponsors” other women via the Al-Anon route. This woman was telling my wife that I was still sick, and that she should simply “let me sit in my shit” and not return to me until I got honest with myself and went back to the recovery home, as I had not completed a 90 day treatment. Apparently 90 days was the magic number, otherwaise failure was inevitable…one of many cookie cutter cult myths. Almost a year passed. I made every effort to communicate with my wife. I was personally involved with an addictions counsellor as well as 12 step meetings. My wife was unresponsive to the extreme, always changing the subject when I brought up reconciliation. I finally ended the marriage out of pure frustration, to protect my own emotions. At this point, my wife panicked, and revealed to me the depth of the advice she was receiving from this “sponsor”..and she was truly torn, thinking that she was doing the right thing by avoiding me and, as told, forcing me to “sit in my shit”. We finally began to communicate for the first time in nearly a year, and have since outright rejected all communication and involvement with AA and any affiliated recovery groups. We are happily on track to rebuilding our lives together, and in retrospect we are both almost shocked that we fell into this trap of biased, uneducated cult. These people are NOT trained in any fashion as counsellors or psychiatrists. Yet they claim authority over the lives of very vulnerable people. The day of the twelve step philosophy is already, thankfully seeing its demise, as AA attendance is now lower than it has ever been. I am deeply sorry for Steven.

    • Thank you Jay! I have much to say about this and will when I have more time. Thank you so much for taking the time to comment and for your wisdom and compassion.

    • Jason – you are a great writer. Expect steppers to go ballistic on you. They can’t take it when someone exposes their beloved cult for what it is … A place for independent thought to die … A place to become ‘powerless’ over ‘people, places, and things’ (everything in life) … A place to turn over your life to god … A place to be taught that you cannot trust your own thinking … A place to pretend you know how to help others … And a place to hide while you make your ‘group’ more important than anything else in your life. Fuck your kids, your ‘sobriety’ matters more than anything. Fuck your spouse, they should get in al-anon ASAP and embrace all this mind-control crap right along with you. All you get from the 12 steps is the avoidance for all eternity to make any behavioral and thinking changes. Keep coming back!

      By the way, this mind-fuck program has commandeered the term ‘sober.’ Sober means NOT DRUNK. The end. Anytime you are NOT DRUNK … You are sober. These fuck-brain steppers can just shut the fuck up. Don’t take any of their attacks personally, their brains are diarrhea.

  5. I have already been blasted…hahaa. A good friend of mine called me..she is heavily involved in AL anon..said “How dare you publicly shame something that has saved families!” And one of my aunts, yet she was far more gracious,,,simply said “my son in-law is with AA, and it works for him” but she is just a curious onlooker, and actually read my posts and thanked me for expressing my opinion. I don;t care. These creeps almost cost me my marriage with their almighty doctrine, which they thrust upon my wife, just as a church would rip on someone who was not “equally yolked” under their god’s eyes. I have been involved in AA since 1987…and shame to me, only recently did I grow a spine (I grew it when they pitted my wife against me) I have no plans on stopping, and I hope you don’t either. I borrowed one of your quotes, but if you are not ok with it, tell me and I will remove it from my post. Keep writing Laura!!!! I am so glad I found this blog of yours!
    http://12stepsback72.blogspot.ca/2014/03/how-it-really-works.html?zx=bdad1346fa8e026d

    • Of course you have been blasted. I have no intention of stopping. The more they lose their shit, the more I will throw their shit right back in their faces.

      Throw that shame right back in their brainwashed faces. The only thing that’s ‘cunning, baffling and powerful’ is the extreme brain-fuck one under the second you hear ‘Rarely have we seen …’

      They lie. About everything. They have nothing of worth in their lives and never will until they get out and get a life. Otherwise, they are drinking the kool-aid and slowly inching closer and closer to death. Bill Wilson asked for whiskey on his death bed. (True story). There will always be regrets for human beings as we die. Now you KNOW one of yours will not be listening to and living within this ‘powerless-BILLshit-piss-fuck-cunt-cocksucker-motherfucker-tits of a lie ‘program.’

      • That’s what I’m talkin about! I just wrote a general kind of response to the zombies that keep trying to post on my blog. One recently even tried the helpful, advice giving love-bombing “I’m concerned-about-your-recovery” approach. I was like, “For real blitch?”

        Of course since they are brain-washed zombies what we are doing is horrifying to them. I guess? Honestly, I would want to know if I had somehow fallen victim to a cult and my dumb ass didn’t know it.

        • Bahahaha! “For real bitch?” Yes, for real. They have been indoctrinated into a religion (that lies about even being a religion) masquerading as medicine. They genuinely believe they are powerless over a fake disease. They genuinely believe that the earth is flat. Just because everyone tells the same lie does NOT make it true.

          But they are fundamental Christian zealots who have been brainwashed to believe their religion is the only truth & if it did not cure you it’s because you did not work the steps properly, are not attending enough of their mind-fuck meetings, do not have a ‘commitment’ or are not working to bring more vulnerable people into the flock. They are seriously fucked.

          I write for those who for whom this cult religion is not working. For those who still believe what their ears, intellect and common sense are telling them. They will brand into your brain that your “best thinking got you to hit a rock bottom in your life.” (Nooooo – your WORST thinking did that.) This religion convinces the prospect, Pidgeon, baby, newbie that AA’s words have their own special meaning, that God is not a supernatural being (it’s a doorknob) and that AA’s religion isn’t religious, it’s ‘spiritual. It’s all a big lie. Don’t fall for it.

          In fact, the AA religion is a danger to religious freedom!

          Thanks for commenting! And for the laugh. ; )

          • Ha..ha..ha… Sometimes my hood-gurl side slips out. That’s what the tough chicks (I was a bullied-dork) asked when you said something out of line and they were about to kick your ass: ‘For real bitch?!’ LOL That’s what I should have said when they first started telling me I was a terminally ill, reject, powerless loser.

            And by the way, I have a child-like question I would like steppers to ask: If we are “powerless” why do we have to “give our power over”? Would the fact that AA requires you to give it over not imply that you have it (power) to give.

            JUST ASKIN… 😉

            Would you PLEASE repost what you just wrote in reply here on my recent video/blog post? I wrote a song, a post and even did a lil video for their asses. It’s called Yes AA Loves Me! (to the tune of Yes Jesus Loves Me)… AMEN?

            Your responses are needless to say PRICELESS!

            PS: The appropriate response to that question is: “Bitch, for REAL!” 😀 (But no AA brain washed zombie has any concept of reality, so they could not dare say that!)

      • Even their literature is one contradiction after another. It tells members that the whole program is merely a suggestion. Then it goes on to say, in the same chapter, that if you do not completely give yourself to “this simple program” you will fail. Then to add insult…if you fail…”they (you) are not at fault..they (you) seem to have been born that way” Talk about a complete conditioning! Not to mention the endless trail of gossip, slander and judgement. I won’t even mention their claim to have no religious interests!
        It’s a bait and trap scenario.

        • I’ve heard (and realized myself) it called a bait and switch which of course it is. Bait and TRAP is even more on target! The image of an animal trapped in a cage is more than apropos. Circus animals are trapped and forced to perform. Sometimes they retaliate. We all understand why.

  6. Considering that the average 12 Step “sponsor” is EVERY BIT AS DYSFUNCTIONAL as the person they are trying to SUBJUGATE (i.e. “sponsor”-exert control over!), I fail to see in what universe (except “Planet 12 Step”!), that this is in any way, healthy psychology!

    • Absolutely. I would say the sponsee still has a chance but the sponsor is beyond help at this point. The longer someone stays ‘in the rooms’ the more psychologically damaged they become. There are exceptions,those who have been in the cult for 30+ years who finally leave and deprogram but the majority stay and defend it with their very lives. Literally.

      I write for the sponsee who is questioning this religion disquised as medicine. As you say, the subjugation is swift and strong and convincing with all the ‘higher power of your understanding’ lies.

      If you have not, you might enjoy Robert Warner’s book How AA Steals Your Soul. He shows the reader exactly they how they lie and where they pull the big switcheroos in order to indoctrinate you into the cult.

      There is a review and a link to find it here:

      <a href="http://cougarblogger.com/2013/08/04/aa-how-aa-steals-your-soul-by-robert-warner-a-book-review/“>

      Thank you so much for reading and commenting!

    • You said it well! I had a sponsor, a church going man, 29 years in AA, share with me during car rides and coffee stops, other sponsees’ 5th step stories. HE didn’t mention names, but he had no difficulty in retelling these highly sensitive stories. He said he even dumpoed one sponsee because he couldn’t handle what he had heard from this guy. Could you imagine a certified counsellor or psychologist behaving this way?

      • Unfortunately, I can because just as many counselors are brainwashed by the steps as non-counselors. Even psychologists have been fooled and actually recommend the ‘program’ to clients. As for sharing stories from other clients, that should never happen but some clinicians are very lazy. To dump a sponsee because you can’t handle their truth is yet another reason these people should NOT be ‘helping’ anyone with any of their problems. Shaming others is so much a part of this cult religion it actually promotes chronic depression … and suicide. It’s diabolical. Your former sponsor is such a loser, he has nothing else of value in his life and has spent so much of his time as an ‘expert’ in this cult religion, he can only show off in life by breaking confidences of others with you. You can be sure anything you shared with him was also shared with others. A good person (let alone a professional) would never do this. A healthy person would never do this. I am so happy you are no longer in this dangerous cult.

      • 12 Steppers regularly confuse “anonymity” for “confidentiality”. Paul Cox learned the mistake of this in 1993-94, when he made a 5th Step confession to his home group about KILLING TWO PEOPLE in New York! He was tattled on to local law enforcement, and sure enough-an unsolved DOUBLE MURDER of 1989 got solved, as he was connected to the crime with HIS palm prints! His defense was he had made the confession in a “confidential” setting. His defense motion was denied, since there is ZERO confidentiality “privilege” at ANY 12 Step group, or between a 12 Stepper, and their “sponsor” (regardless of what a sponsor says!). When it comes to AA, anything you say, CAN AND WILL be used against you in, by and throughout the 12 Step group!

        • I wish more of them would get turned in for their crimes. Unfortunately, most steppers who confess a crime to their sponsors are never turned in. Either their sponsor writes it off as ‘character defects’ and/or he uses the knowledge to further manipulate and shame the sponsee to keep them in the fold and under their control.

          Thank you for this story. I hadn’t heard of this one … It’s not easy to keep up with them, there are so many and they are often kept secret for far too long. I am going to do some more research into this one. If more of them were turned in for their crimes, perhaps Karla Brada would still be alive. Thank you!

          • The entire story was featured on an episode of “20/20” in June, 1994 (the covering story was the fact that the jury in Mr.. Cox’s case was HUNG, and a mistrial declared!). He was tried again, found guilty, and Mr. Cox was sentenced to 50 years in prison! The episode also touched on the debate between “confidentiality” and “anonymity”, and that because there is NO CONFIDENTIALITY in 12 Step groups, one needs to BE, AND REMAIN, ANONYMOUS!

            • Well that’s just fucking great isn’t it. The lesson is not ‘don’t murder’ the lesson is to keep the cult going you must maintain anonymity … Because these fuckers don’t want to be drawn into PUBLIC CONTROVERSY, right !!!! This cult religion is more brilliant than the Catholic Church !!!!

              Where is the justice in this? Good thing there are steppers on staff at 20/20!

        • Something else on this. Where else would a person, even or especially a murderer, think they would be safe sharing their FUCKING DOUBLE MURDER? A cult religion. That’s where.

          First of all, what a fucking moron. With his level of moronidity (hey, new word!), in concert with the lies and confusion of the 12 step ‘promises’ he never stood a chance of getting away with this horrible crime for the rest of his life. To try to use this sick-fuck excuse of ‘confidentiality’ or ‘anonymity’ as his defense is further proof of

          1) The dangerous and crazy fucking criminals attracted to the cult religion and

          2) How the program makes them even more fucking horrible than they were to begin with.

          I guess that is your entire point. Sorry, took me a second. ; )

          • Considering there is not, and never will be in 12 Step groups, a “screening” process to keep put pedophiles, murderers, mysogynists, rapists, etc., all of these types are presumed “welcome”, as long as they admit to the idiocy of “powerlessness” over a drug. The concept alone boggles the mind, not to mention the fools that believe in it!

  7. I am really pleased in reading all these comments. I am a recovering alcoholic. It’s only been 6 weeks and I have been to a few aa meetings in Swansea Wales. I have been going to open meetings where I was the only one taking my wife for support. In only 5 meetings I thought to myself hang on a second this just is not right. Alarm bells were ringing in my head. They were basically telling me that as soon as I stop going to meetings my life would go downhill. I am a headstrong person but weak when it came to alcohol. But I say weak and not powerless as they were trying to lead me to believe. And also trying to say they were not a religious group. Hahahaha fucking ha. They are a bunch of warped fuckwits. I got on the Internet and done some deeper research. My wife even started believing in them that I needed to attend and it was the only way. I sat her down and showed her some documents from a webpage call the Orange pages and Bill wilsons lies. Nothing but a big hypocrite who begged for a whiskey on his deathbed. I can not understand why none of this is on the news or in the newspapers. You only need to look at the aa symbol. Triangle inside a circle to see the similarity to that of the illuminati. I am going to write a huge letter to my local paper and hope they publish it. Keep up the good work cougar. Lots of weak minded young ones need people like you to expose these mind bending pricks…….

    • No doubt David! I will never back down. Why is this information not available in the news? We are talking about one hell of a brilliant mind-fuck cult here. That’s why. Also, AA makes the media complicit in their lies and subterfuge in many ways. Id addition, there are brainwashed steppers everywhere who make the same sweeping statements of ‘powerlessness,’ in every walk of life and in every corner of the globe. Although this cult is particularily taken hold of North America. Ignorance, immaturity, lack of education and the power of this cult are to blame. The Orange Papers are brilliant.

      Keep listening to your instincts. Do NOT let these cult fucks mess with your power. Please share anything you write with me and I will post it everywhere. Congratulations on finding the truth. It will always set you free.

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