Alcoholics Anonymous Destroys Self-Esteem and Self-Sufficiency

robin-williams-aa-meeting-pp1I have discovered that this programme known as Alcoholics Anonymous is dangerous in ways that may be difficult to understand.  Most people, in general, need to find self-love and empowerment.  Most people do not need to be beaten down and stripped of their power.  AA steals your soul and any chance you may have at fulfilling your dreams.  The indoctrination is so powerful that even brilliance is not recognized by the brilliant due to the abuse they suffered after spending time in AA.

I have been given permission to reveal the author and to post the following re-write of the 12 steps. If you have ever spent any time in the rooms you will recognize this chanting at the beginning of every meeting — but what follows is truth and not disempowering, dangerous, brainwashing dogma.  It is brilliance.

The New Twelve Steps —

RARELY HAVE they seen a person who has thoroughly followed their path. Those who do recover are usually people who have recognized AA as a dangerous religious cult, and will not give themselves completely to AA’s fanatical program. The AA Cult is constituted primarily of men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with anyone… including themselves.

Some of them are not at fault; They were screwed the second they set foot into the church basement door. They were systematically indoctrinated into believing that alcoholics are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands any type of honesty. They should still be held accountable for the behavior that has ruined so many lives. Many AA members suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders. The program requires that they believe alcoholics can never recover. Most of the people who quit drinking without AA have recovered in large part, due to their self-determination and ability to act rationally. Our stories disclose in a general way what We used to be like, what happened, and what We are like now.
If You have decided You want to leave Alcoholics Anonymous and are willing to go to any lengths to do it – then You are ready to take certain steps.

At some of these We were delighted. We were sure that We had found a more sound and reasonable way. With all of the earnestness at our command, We encourage You to be resolute and confident from the very start. Some of Us have tried to hold on to Our old AA ideas and the result was nil until We let go absolutely. Remember that WE deal with Alcoholics Anonymous – cunning, baffling, dishonest! Continuing the mental masturbation was too much for Us.

There is only one person who has the power to overcome your alcohol problem – that person is You. May You trust and believe in Yourself now! Delusions and superstitious nonsense availed Us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We learned to protect and care for Ourselves with complete Self-acceptance. Here are the steps We took which are encouraged as a course of action to escape the AA mind trap…

1. We decided We were “Not Powerless” over alcohol – that Our lives had become dominated by AA.

2. Came to understand that We were never as morally reprehensible as some AA members had led Us to believe.

3. Made a decision to turn and walk away from Alcoholics Anonymous forever.

4. Made a scorching and fearless indictment against AA as an organization.

5. Admitted to Ourselves and another Human Being that We had been ambushed into joining a religious cult.

6. Were entirely ready to relieve Ourselves of the self-defeating bullshit We were taught at AA.

7. Familiarized Ourselves with cult indoctrination tactics in order that We may never fall into a similar trap again.

8. Made a list of all AA-members who had harmed Us, and became willing to confront them all.

9. Called such people on their bullshit whenever possible, except when to do so would significantly injure them or others.

10. Continued to indict Alcoholics anonymous and when We were wronged promptly expressed our disapproval of it.

11. Sought scientific empirical evidence that could help Us to defeat addiction; focusing on Ourselves as the Power to carry that out.

12. Having been awakened from the AA nightmare as a result of these steps, We tried to carry this message to other victims of AA, so that everyone might know the truth about the Alcoholics Anonymous cult.

You are not alone.

Many of Us have been misled by the religion that claims not to be a religion. Some of Us suffered for years oblivious to the fact that AA offers no reliable or even sincere method to help alcohol troubled people to recover from addiction. When We felt hopeless. They used it against Us.

They told us We were powerless.
They did it to break Us down.
They did it to make Us unsure of Ourselves.
They did it to recruit new members for their religious cult.
We’re here to expose AA for what it really is. If You’ve tried AA over and over again, and You’re not getting the results you were promised, maybe it’s time You tried something else.
Think about it.

— Gunthar

Like I said — Brilliance.

However, many members (and ex-members), have an understandably difficult time deprogramming from all the scare tactics forced down their throats in AA.


You see, Bill Wilson was the kind of person who had to lie about who he was because he hated himself for very specific reasons, that we will never know — very specific reasons that he avoided facing his entire life. He avoided delving into his self-hate by becoming a guru, all the while acting as if he did not want to be a guru. He is the most brilliant guru of all time.

And since he hates himself so, rather than figure out why, he had to develop a program that would make its members hate themselves just as much, or hopefully more … to justify his hate-filled heart and to develop a posse of fawning disciples. Oh, and to 13th step (sexually harass) all the women.

Wilson had chronic depression and killed himself slowly with nicotine and then begged for whiskey on his death-bed — now that’s some SERIOUS SELF HATE.  Having compassion for him is fine as long as you refrain from following his path or from defending his cult religion.

Stay the fuck away from AA.

— Laura Tompkins

197 comments on “Alcoholics Anonymous Destroys Self-Esteem and Self-Sufficiency

  1. Awesomely written and articulated! Now MAKE THIS ARTICLE GO VIRAL, AND SHAME A.A. OUT OF EXISTENCE! 😉

    • That is the idea! Thank you. Please share everywhere.

      • Of course, I’ ve known about your blog and your writing for ages. I think this even popped up earlier in links that people were posting in online discussions I was involved with.

        I smiled and chuckled through most of it, and the one point I initially hesitated, step 8, listing those that had hurt us AA and in preparation for confronting them. I was thinking that this was not safe to do and not necessary, but then I saw how doing this had been vital for my recover from AA, and began actually before I entered the AA online community.

        The analysis of Bill Wilson’s self-hate was also useful. I hadn’t looked at it quite that way before, but what your interpretation makes a great deal of sense.

        Another point of great intelligence and wit is that on the dishonesty of the Program. This idea was, of course, not new to me, but still the way you expressed it further clarified it for me.

      • My minor edit to the new 12th step:
        12. Having been awakened from the 12 step dystopian nightmare as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other victims of these groups, so that everyone might know the truth about the failure of the 12 step ethos.

      • I’d be remiss to not chime in on this Blog Post. THANK YOU, LAURA. XOXOXO. It has been some sort of small vindication for me to now know that I was indeed being Gaslighted in a way only 12 Steppers can. People with self-appointed authority and alleged expertise on life coaching in this bizarre convoluted way that only Sponsors and oldtimers can. Ever see anyone literally run out of a meeting room? I have. Good on therwellianm. This blog entry has been the single best summation of the root cause/the big problem of all problems within 12 Step/ A.A./N.A., posted online that I know of. There are countless other issues with 12 step but to sum it up with just one argument,on one big issue, this takes the cake. I have watched my email inbox light up day after day for 4 years with replies to this one blog post. YOU STRUCK A NERVE. I HATE 12 Step (BECAUSE IT IS KILLING MY FRIENDS) as a Non-religious Non-Atheist. I DO NOT hate God. I may be uncommon as an anti-stepper. I’m not an “Alcoholic” and I am not an “Addict.” If it relies on Self-Diagnosis, no, I am neither an Alcoholic nor an Addict. One has to be ill on some level to wear these labels of self-diagnosis as a badge of honor, or to take Pride in their Humility or whatever oxymoronic psychological phenomenon (Orwellian double-think) that steppers are employing. In no way do I endorse the use of any drug for non medicinal reasons. BUt it all needs to be Decriminalized. Decriminalize every single psychoactive compound in every Western Country and watch those rooms empty out fast. Especially with no more Court Mandated Fresh Meat. FYI: As an insider of sorts, everyone lies about what their cleantime or sober time really is. A huge percentage. Like an inside joke. This post will self destruct in 30 days. I still owe you a lengthy story, Laura. It’ll be in your e-mail. I am half-convinced that 12 step was DELIBERATELY DESIGNED TO BE COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE for the bulk of attendees. That’s my pet conspiracy theory…

        • Thank you! In the early days, they found that if they did not label and brainwash a person FAST, they would leave in disgust. Therefore, they did not care whether what they were doing to their fellow human being was right, respectful, or helpful, they only cared about keeping the cult alive by mandating that people “keep coming back”… even though this despicable cult religion HARMS everyone it touches.

          You’re absolutely correct and don’t you allow a smudgen of doubt about that! Fuck the 12 step cult religion and all who defend it! Long live TRUTH.

  2. I already feel better after reading this brilliant piece. It’s just been one of those days!!! I realized that many of the problems that I deal with on these days has to do with my indoctrination and life within AA. I’ve been completely out over a year, but the lingering psychological damage it has caused is unbelievable. Thank you!

    • Thank YOU for taking the time to comment. You truly are not alone. There are definitely more people harmed by AA than helped and most of those who claim it helps them are either brainwashed or get a kick out of acting as big shots ‘old-timers’ giving everyone advice when they should be in prison or at the very least an institution. Let’s not forget the convicts! The last statistic I read stated that 36% of the ‘fellowship’ has either been recruited directly from jails and/or mandated by the justice system or drug courts. When the mandating (illegal by the way) stops, so will the majority of meetings.

      As for the psychological damage inflicted, give yourself time. It’s actually very believable since brain damage and extreme cognitive dissonance is what this ‘program’ is all about. You’re only human and obviously very intelligent. Give yourself a break. Wilson and his disciple-guru-wannabees are monsters who prey on nice, intelligent people such as yourself.

      You are free now. Free to feel your feelings (which are facts for you!!!!). You can even allow yourself to feel the dreaded ‘resentment.’ Resentment is a normal feeling that teaches us to kick assholes and dangerous situations to the curb. You have successfully broken out of the psychological hold of this dangerous cult religion. You did nothing wrong. It’s the ‘program’ that is wrong. Very wrong. Your WORST thinking (clouded by lies) got you there. Your BEST thinking got you out.

    • I particularly liked Step 8. I am someone who occasionally goes too far with drinking, and have several times used AA to clean up. I have avoided sponsors and Steps etc. Recently after 6 months of abstinence I took a (planned and, I think, fully appropriate) drink at an old friend’s funeral. He was Jamaican so we all had a shot of Wray and Nephew’s rum. I told my brother, 25 years “sober” in AA and someone very important to me as I had no father, about this. The next day I received the following text from him:
      “After thinking things through, I have decided to have no contact with you. Feel free
      to get in touch when you have two years continuous sobriety.”
      I feel a mixture of excruciating heartache and a sense of freedom in that perhaps, finally, my mind can become my own.

      • You mean to say you haven’t ended up in jail, a psyche ward, or DEAD?! That’s not a brother, that’s a brainwashed cult disciple. I am so sorry. (Most people over indulge in alcohol sometimes. That’s doesn’t make you “sicker than others.” That makes you human.)

        What a fucking prick to set that ridiculous and shaming mandate on you. “Two years of continuous sobriety” is nothing but the brainwashing talking. Never have anything to do with these sick fucking people and celebrate your life outside of this dangerous cult religion. He’s fucked. You’re fine. But still… what a fucking brainwashed asshole. He should have congratulated you for your ability to have ONE fucking shot and not go off on some “demoralizing” binge.

        Go with your fake and judgmental god steppers, it’s all you’ve got in life. How sad that he would treat his own brother this way but you have to know that it’s the “programme” talking. After 25 years of it, he’s not free to be anyone’s brother.

  3. Thank you for sharing this. I am very interested in learning more about the money AA collects.. It is significant amounts of cash. And, the not so unusual thefts that occur when one of the ‘Secretary’s’ runs off with the till.. I think they keep their financial info closely guarded. So glad for the anti-AA company!

  4. Thanks for posting this. I hope that it will help someone to realize the truth about the AA cult.

  5. Thank you! I’ve been out of the rooms for the last three months and it is comfortably the best thing I’ve done in my life. It’s true, AA mullered my self-esteem and sufficiency.

    I’m doing it my way now and I have the support of many true friends in doing so.

    Did my best thinking get me out of there? Hell yes!

  6. A well written piece and I agree with you on all points. I quit drinking in July ’13 and reached out to AA online and basically got chased away after I started to question them about things I was in so I was told “I was in denial” and headed for a catastrophic relapse. They’d say “You can stop a drinking problem by thinking the same way you can stop diarrhea by thinking about it”….or “Get rid of those books (self-help\ psychology) because they are the problem. You’re trying to stay you….and you’re the problem…”. Endless mind games. Thankfully the lot of them descended on my free thinking and I got band from the site. Best thing that ever happened to me because I quit quite happily on my own after a very prolonged drinking problem. I never ceases to amaze me the brainwashed arrogance of the group. So destructive.

    • It never ceases to amaze me either Dave. The fact that you cannot possibly deviate from the strictly self-demeaning dogma is enough to prove the extreme cult status. They are so full of shit, they are unaware of how blocked from life they have become. Any organization should welcome growth and want to move forward rather than stay stuck in one place forever. Yet another criteria for cult status. No freethinking allowed! I am sorry you had that experience but at least you learned quickly that this cult religion is not for you. Some people think they want what this cult has so badly, they stay for years and years, going to meetings wherever their travels take them … Only feeling whole in or after a meeting. They have merely traded one dependence for another. The initial dependence is usually less destructive to the mind that the brainwashing by the group-think and thought stopping slogans.

      We can and do stop destructive behavior with our thinking and behavior. How the hell else is it done? They can thank the almighty program and their guru Wilson all they want but they are not stuck alone on an island with a fucking volleyball. Or are they?

      Thanks so much for commenting. Sounds as if you have a healthy perspective. Congratulations are in order for your keen sense of healthy versus unhealthy thinking!

      • I really agree with your statement of any organization should welcome growth and want to move forward, clearly that program does not, if so that means absolutely relapse and so on and so forth. Also I liked your statement about only feeling whole in a meeting or after a meeting. Sad really.

        • Very sad. This cognitive dissonance causes steppers to insist their programme saved their lives and it can yours too … If you only follow their simple programme path. It’s all lies and religious indoctrination.

          Steppers never feel whole but settle for chants and thought-stopping mantras insisting they are happy, joyous, and free, when nothing could be further from the truth.

          Thanks so much for commenting and please share everywhere.

        • What really peeves me off is that they are openly religious dogma, and they are on deanial about it. Who was it the nazi minister of propaganda who said something to the likes of “…you can repeat a lie over and over until it become true to the masses”.

          Millions of public funds are used every year by public treatment facilities to promote this religious inductrinstion as if it is treatment, when it has never been tested for safety much less effectiveness. Which is neither. All treatment does is to try to comvonce us to join AA or NA. Facilities are promoting medical pseudoscience.

          I promote and invite the community to comtact your local ACLU as this.pubic funds are not only used fraudulently but in violation of the first ammendment. Although seven federal cases has declare AA/NA as religious, seting a precedence. This has fallen on deaf ears when it commrs to treatment. As long as they dominate the treatment field thete is going to be no chsnges and improvements on treatment effectiveness.

  7. Thank you for the article on AA and self esteem. I am 53 years old and struggled with alcohol all my adult life. I have been in detoxes and about 24 years ago done 12 months rehab at a salvation army run rehab. In all those years I’ve been in and out of AA. In 2013 I nearly died from acute pneumonia in both lungs and severe cirrhosis of the liver. In hospital I was treated by a wonderful doctor named Dr Robert Batey,he started me on a drug called Baclofen which I took 10mg daily for just over a year. It is not a wonder drug but helped me greatly with early sobriety nerves and helped me keep calm. Like many others I thought I was doomed because I don’t believe in a higher power so how can I work the steps. I haven’t had a drink for almost 2 years while living with an alcoholic partner and such happenings like my mother dying 3 weeks after her and dads 60th anniversary. I’ve been off baclofen for about a year and no desire to drink an most important no AA. My life is not perfect but I’m not complaining I do not feel guilty anymore or am I in fear of the AA thought police(Orwell was right) so I live day to day and I wouldn’t have my AA life back for anything,thanking you Neil Webster.

    • You’re welcome Neil. I am happy you are alive. It sounds as if you have had a rough time and you are fortunate to be alive. It also sounds as if you are alive IN SPITE of the indoctrination into and the treatment of you by AA. Thanks to your medical doctor and your choices to remain true to your instincts, you have pulled through and are thriving.

      You are 100% correct. Without belief in the AA God (Wilson, his plagiarized book and the guru-wannabees known as ‘old-timers’), one cannot possibly survive. This cult religion gives you two options: join it and give up thinking for yourself (never mind loving yourself) or die. This is no way to live. This is no way to treat other people. It’s abusive group-think that is accepted and pushed on people by those we trust — judges, doctors and disciples, many of which are in the entertainment business. It’s a travesty.

      Nobody’s life is perfect but you are on the right track. You can hold your head high. You can let your partner know that while you love her/him, you are not a pin cushion and will disengage when the going gets abusive in any way. You can love and yet still have boundaries for your own preservation. In fact, you must have boundaries even in the healthiest of partnerships. Two years is a drop in the bucket when we are talking about a lifetime of learning that needs to be upgraded (Two years off alcohol is commendable and due to your liver, necessary). You have the power to make choices every second of every day and to feel proud of yourself for your choices. Even when your choices are not perfect, you are learning and growing and experiencing life … And that’s what it’s all about. Pride. Love. Dignity. Respect. Fun. Joy. Laughter. Tears.

      I am so sorry to hear of your mother’s passing. Your father must be distraught, lonely and lost without her. I am sure he enjoys having his healthy son around him now. You can be proud of yourself for being there for him.

      Contrary to the thought-stopping dogma of the 12 step cult, you are not at risk of abusing yourself just because life is happening. People die. Life is full of conflict. Chaos is part of the human experience. This in no way makes us more or less capable of making the decision to drink or not drink alcohol. Alcohol is not ‘cunning, baffling, and/or powerful’ … It is a beverage. YOU are powerful and you do not need a ‘God’ of any understanding to access your innate power in any given moment. In fact, when life is in chaos, our ability to make healthy, helpful choices is even more available to us. We’ve all heard or seen feats of great strength and courage when people are faced with the most dire of circumstances. Human beings are the most powerful, creative creatures on the only planet we know, than any other animal. We invent incredible gifts and share them with each other. We can accomplish anything with our unique brains and opposable thumbs. We are creatures who love with a language all our own. We can actually learn another cultures language if we just do the studying and practice necessary. We are full of power and to belong to a group that strips us of our power, is a crime.

      Congratulations on all you have accomplished within your own unique conflicts and losses. I do hope that you are processing the loss of your mom fully. You deserve to feel this loss and to have your feelings. Your feelings ARE facts when you are feeling them. Complaints about your life are not only normal but clues for that which is in need of tweaking. You have everything you need to thrive in this life. Great work Neil.

      Thank you so much for taking the time to comment. Getting free from AA is what gave you freedom and happiness. Congratulations.

  8. […] Some point out that AA is a religious cult. Independent or critical thought is discouraged. You read from the AA scriptures and recite Christian prayers. You’re expected to come to believe and proclaim that AA saved your life and that without AA you will die. AA is a Cult […]

  9. I am a 70 yr old, college educated person who was taken to de-tox by two well meaning friends and my brother last June, 2014. After de-tox I was in IOP for 30 days. I remember in one of the meetings in de-tox, the leader was talking about AA. I had no knowledge of AA and made a comment that I did not know if I could embrace all of that. His comment was “I don’t give a shit”. I have been in AA for almost 9 months, and I finally know what he meant. AA lifers don’t give a shit because they are baffled by someone not agreeing with them. I have tried to talk to my sponsor and other AA members about it and cannot get a word in after they start going on and on. At one point in doing the 12 steps, my sponsor said he could not help me. I go to meetings and secretary some, but for the most part am not geeting much from them. I also meant to say, that I really did not start drinking heavily until 3-4 years ago. So I really haven’t been through as much as some of these people who started at say 14.

    I am also having a problem with God or one of your understanding. I was raised to believe in God and still do. But these people who all of a sudden find a god of something, everything just falls into place and all their prayers are answered. WOW.

    I am at the point of getting out of this program. I don’t know if it is keeping me sober, or it is my own willpower. And another thing, you are supposed to get phone numbers. I have gotten some from people who have been in a while and some with less time than I. Only one person has ever called me, and he has less time. Amazing. I don’t get it.

    I know I am rambling, but just had to express my thoughts. I have more but maybe at a later time. This site has been great. Thanks.

    • Thank you so much for writing Billy. You are welcome to ramble as much as you like. ; ) Steppers will not hear you but I, (and the millions of enlightened people) WILL. In fact, you are in tremendous company. It takes a strong and powerful person to fight this indoctrination. They may mean well, but they are doing harm. You are 100% correct — They do not ‘give a shit’ because they do not want anyone rocking their dysfunctional boat there. You deserve much better.

      Your sponsor was right … he can’t help you. But not because there is anything wrong with you, but due to the fact that they are too steeped in fear and imposing fear on others, they have nothing to offer you. Your instincts are your friends and your WORST thinking will lead you to embrace all the stepper disempowering BILLShit. Your BEST thinking is telling you that this cult is all wrong. Heed that voice.

      Steppers have embellished and dramatized their ‘shares’ in order to become ‘one of us.’ They have lied for so long, they actually believe their lies. They are not only lying to the room, they are lying to themselves. You are not one drink away from jail an institution and/or death if you do not attend this cult religion. The last thing you need is to join a dangerous cult religion. They are sick and will only bring you down their rabbit hole and step over you as you suffer. Your own thinking is keeping you from drinking. You know what is right. It is NOT true that ‘once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.’ For 5% of people, they should never again. For everyone else, once they understand the underlying reasons for the self-medicating, can and do enjoy alcohol in complete moderation. (You can make any decision with the innate power you have always possessed.)

      Please write whenever you feel the need. I do this work for you … for those who still have their brains intact which you most certainly do. Nice work! Keep Coming Back — just not to a 12 step cult. No one needs to have all their power stripped from them to make better choices.

      Thanks again for writing. It is wonderful to hear from you.

    • Billy, I’m a bit late but I hope you found something other than AA and that you have taken back control of your life.

  10. I had to correct my e-mail address

  11. Ah yes, the phone lists. What a joke. I started transposing my last four digits to make sure that nobody could call me but make it look like I was being a good little stepper lady. How crazy is that!?

    • Sounds like good self-preservation actually. You would never willingly give your contact information to 99% of these people!

  12. Finally left after 29 years. I had a few sips of wine and nothing happened. It created a big issue with my sponsor of course; being so guilt ridden about it I told her. AA traps you in a form of denial about the TRUTH. It’s not a disease. But it can be a compulsion and for that I needed support for stopping. But that is not the case NOW. I can sip a brandy; I can sip a glass of wine. I don’t need to drink a whole bottle of anything.

    • Wow. Good for you. 29 years is a lot of time to live under all those self-fulfilling prophesies. Of course, steppers will claim that you were never an “alcoholic” if you can moderate but their indoctrination and brainwashing is what keeps them stuck in a life of character defects as their primary focus. You know better and are living a better life now.

      You would have been better off receiving your initial support from a medical professional versed in the evidence and science rather than the faith healing disguised as medicine that is the “programme.”

      Enjoy your freedom and power!

    • Nice job! People develop compulsions, it’s called being human … and since they are a learned behavioral choice, another choice can be made.

      These sponsors have no business training your dog, let alone advising you on mental health disorders, or as you put it, compulsions. That they lay guilt and instill fear in vulnerable people must be exposed.

      Thank you so much for commenting! Please share everywhere.

  13. My worst days out of AA are better than my best days in AA

  14. Thank you for sharing this. It’s been a year since I went to rehab, was indoctrinated into the 12 step cult. I tried for months to accept the 12 steps, thinking that the only way to get and stay sober was through the program. It only took 6 months for me to call bullshit. The first thing I couldn’t stomach was the higher power nonsense and that my addiction was a “spiritual malady.” I have 2 degrees in social work. I am used to being scientifically minded. Research and evidence based treatment is what I was taught and what I had believed in. Blind faith is not part of who I am.
    The 2nd thing that got me to question the program was the slogans are the answer for every problem if we continue to repeat them, we will believe them. And that’s true, but it doesn’t solve anything, it makes you question your own ideas and whittle them down to 4 word slogans. You cannot have individual thought or question anything. If you do you get pat answers that are meaningless. Have you ever tried to argue with an AA? They talk in circles. Will only address one word of your question and then turn it on its head. It makes my head spin.
    The 3rd issue I had was the powerlessness of the program. I believe that self empowerment is needed to grow and improve yourself, not feel powerless. As a woman with a trauma background, being told that I am powerless created a victim mindset and made me vulnerable to abuse. That leads to accepting the 13th step as normal. It happens, just get used to it. No, I am a survivor. I no longer subscribe to the victim mentality. I will not allow a group of men to sexualize me and make me think that is perfectly fine.
    Finally, I left after I kept relapsing and went to the doctor and was prescribed suboxone. It helps keep me sober. When an AA told me that I wasn’t sober if I took any medication, even antidepressants. That opinion could’ve killed me, and it has killed others.
    I am happy that I didn’t stay any longer and I feel sad that there are people who are brainwashed into staying.

    • You are in the majority! Most people go through exactly what you so well describe. But you GOT OUT. Be proud of yourself for that and enjoy your life. You’re absolutely correct … Following the dogma of this program is toxic and was harming you. Some people cannot see this even after leaving. Nice job!

      Thanks so much for commenting. (Sorry it took me so long to approve your comment) Empowerment is key.

  15. I can’t believe that more people have not .taken legal action against facilities that continue to promote the 12 Step Programs as if it is treatment. Both for violation of the First Amendment of the US Constitution, separation between Church and State. There about seven precedent case where people have been force to attend AA or NA meeting by courts, Probation, Parole etc. The case of DeStefanos vs Emergency Housing Group. I urge people to contact your local ACLU and file a complain. Specially if you have been a patient at one of these public funded facilities who are using public fund to promote religious indoctrination. In essence what they call treatment is to convince their patients to join one of the Anonymous Programs. Even what staff call treatment is nothing less than a recruitment to join one of these religious groups. There is plenty of information in the internet about the religiosity of AA etc.

    ACLU has really not protected the rights of substance users who have gone to treatment. The grand majority of people relapse with in a year of completing their treatment. For the most part, people are made responsible and are blaming for not following the program. there is some loose data of people who have joined AA and committed suicide because they have been unable to keep sober. S

    Another approach is malpractice. Anonymous programs in treatment facilties have never been tested for safety or effectiveness prior to implementation in the 70 and80s



    • It’s hard to believe Carlos! Thank you for all the excellent suggestions. Contacting the ACLU is an excellent suggestion.

      AA is a breach of our human rights when mandated by a court since it is a full-on cult religion.

      Thank you for continuing to fight this fight!

  16. This article was recently forwarded to me and I can see it has been out for several months now.
    I left AA after nine years. There were many things that never set quite right with me. When I questioned them, I was told I wasn’t being honest with myself and that I didn’t have a good AA program.
    For example, when I began to make better decisions and made headway in my life I was told I was being self-centered. When I continued to have a social circle of AA and drinking friends, I was told I was on the verge of relapse.
    The big book of Alcoholics Anonymous professes that we become a productive member of society. Doesn’t that mean it should encompass everyone who chooses to drink or not?
    Depression has been a part of my life and I believe a great deal to do with why I driank so heavily at one point in my life. It was a deeply tragic time and I used alcohol to cope. I’ve overcome that event in my life with the help of professionals and believe the medication I need to be on is vital to my mental health.
    When I was told I was not truly “sober” because I was on medication, I stopped it. I almost committed suicide and decided then that I would rather be on my medication, stop AA and become that productive member of society.
    I am alive, happy and a social drinker who understands that life is life and we handle some things well and other things not so well. Learn and grow from them. Don’t beat yourself up. That came from the professionals, not the program of AA.
    Thank you for your perspective.

    • Thank YOU for your comments Zigi. Your experience is that of the vast majority of people who come into the rooms. You have the bravery to come out and speak the truth and this truth helps more people than you may know. Although the vast majority of people find the 12 steps harmful, they do leave and never look back. Unlike yourself, they do not feel comfortable speaking out against this cult religion due to the it works if you works it lie. They know what you so eloquently and painfully say is true but they forever question themselves and live in fear of ever taking back their power. Thank you, thank you, thank you! You have to be extremely proud of yourself for pulling yourself out of your suicidality and coming through to the other side. The happy, joyous and free chant is only available for those who truly got free and take their power back. Congratulations.

    • I completely understand what you’ve experienced! Only you are calmer and more understanding than me.. I still feel angry; about my investment of time, energy, CASH, and trying so hard to belong, to ‘do it right’ in spite of my intuition.
      I too use medication, and after 5 years of ‘sobriety’ am now a social drinker.
      AA discourages belief in the very things that I have found to be true and helpful: SCIENCE, personal responsibility, understanding and learning WHY we need to medicate/relax/open up, and finding better ways to help ourselves.
      Without the judgement of a harsh, Christian, Patriarchal, self blaming system.

      • Thank you RAINE. Very well said. It’s perfectly fine to feel a completely normal feeling like anger. Just keep in mind that you can be angry at this cult religion and those who led you to feel worse than ever, without further blaming yourself. That said, the anger keeps it fresh for you so that you never allow another injustice against your intuition. Trust that.

  17. I KNEW exactly why I stopped attending AA meetings as soon as I was released from rehab: AA is simply another new element to become entirely dependent upon! My memory(now clean) is excellent. I don’t need to be constantly sharing the wreckage of my past. Nobody’s impressed. The Message is perfectly clear – you pick-up again…..you go back to Johnny Law’s “house.” I do not need to be chanting the Serenity thing with a group of other sheeple…..I now stay quit because I value substances over everything else in my life. Nothing can change this fact, so I must simply remain abstinent for LIFE….and all is good.

    • Well yes Zachary, this cult religion needs you to depend on it in spite of your wellness, in order to stay alive. Just like any other cult, you need to give all credit for making better choices to the Programme rather than rely on your own innate power to treat yourself better.

      Although the vast majority of people can and do successfully moderate their drinking and do not need to be babysit around prescriptions pills etc, you are free to choose abstinence. Abstinence is one choice however. Careful not to take the 12 step all-or-nothing as necessary for everyone however, since this is simply not the case. Once again, science proves this dangerous cult religion wrong on every level.

      Thank you for commenting!

  18. And courts just keep pushing this shit on people.

    • Yes and judges, lawyers and parole officers actually listen to these “sponsors” as if they have any right of opinion. It’s sicker than sick!

      Thank you for commenting. Hope you enjoy my blog. If so, please pass it on.

      • After the Supreme Court ruled that AA is a religious organization it is no longer legal for a judge, counselor, etc. to force someone to AA as it is a violation of the First Amendment. Refer to the case of Griffin v. Coughlin. If a judge or other authority figure DOES impose this sick, twisted cult upon an individual that person may file a civil suit against the offending party for violation of the First Amendment.

        Great article by the way. Also check out orange-papers.org for more great anti-AA material. The cult must be destroyed.

        • Indeed. However although the Griffin case happened quite a while ago, the illegal mandating is still in full swing and vulnerable/scared people do not know their rights.

          I am well-versed in the brilliant work by “Orange” and reference it often.

          Thank you so much for commenting!

          • When my sponsor suggested I begin praying….I got off at the 6th Step. Who needs meetings, when an episode of COPS works better?

            • BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Bad boys know what to do! Anything, or nothing at all, works better than AA. Thank you for the laugh Zachery. Please share everywhere! And keep coming back!

  19. This was everything I’ve ever thought about AA in a well-written, concise, and thought-provoking article. Thank you for this. I’ve met so many “alcoholics”, and most of them weren’t that…they were just assholes who discovered AA–which then excused their poor /antisocial behavior based on the disease model. (But don’t worry, they’re all better now and would love to tell you all about how it works for them.)

    • You’re welcome. Thank you for commenting!

      Even if members are “alcoholic” they become know-it-all, dogma spewing, lifeless wonders of the disease theory with the special addition of being the most annoying person wherever they go … Incessantly insisting their “program saved their lives.”

      It’s all a big load of BILLShit.

      • Thankyou for letting me know I made the correct choice. I appreciate the descriptive way you class all alkies would never have though of it like that.

        • Well Gordon I sure hope I do not classify all “alkies” as being some sub-set group of “selfish unfortunates.” Every person has their own individual path.

          I also hope my work helps to EMPOWER all those who read it.

          Thank you for commenting. Please share everywhere.

  20. I’m sitting here in my favorite restaurant which unfortunately is also occupied by the black queen of alcoholics here and her minions after their meeting across the street. They are very loud and unladylike and people are commenting and leaving the restaurant. I am so sorry I believed some well meaning people and attended some AA meetings but I finally realized the message from them is downward and not upward. I am so grateful to the real and ever present God for guidance. I left AA after having nothing from them because I can think for myself with the real God’s help

  21. The only credit I will give AA is that it kept me from DUI, which probably where I was heading in my early 20s. But…the more I got involved…the worse the experiences got for me in AA. Failed relationships, cliques, receiving terrible, almost financially ruining advice from people who had no idea what they were really talking about. I spent 10 years in AA and I would say, the first year and a half was great…then things started slowly going south for me…and I was in my early 20’s…I remember taking a great job, a job which was aligned with what I studied in school and my new sponsor berated me for “making a major change early in the program”. His suggestion was that I quit, which I did, to commit more of my time to recovery and then make a move like that…I was 22 at the time and it was literally the worst decision I ever made…he “helped me” take odd jobs with his other AA buddies painting houses and landscaping (which, seems to be a trend in the program), I have considered suing him, but I know that’s not logical…I was so brainwashed, AA literally cost me a career. I am 6 months recovering from AA after 10 years in and slowly learning to realize I am good at making my own positive life decisions. Unfortunately, I’m in a career I’m bored with, living in another state 15 hours away from my hometown. I often think back to the 22 year old me and want to say…don’t go in that room…go the other way!

    • This is the all-too-common, and sad, story. I am so sorry, truly and profoundly sorry.

      I do disagree that this cult religion kept you from driving under the influence. You made the choice not to drive drunk at the same time you were brainwashed into the cult. You can take credit (and your power back) for making that choice.

      Also, you can stop thinking that the first year and a half was “great.” That was the time they were stripping you of your power. That was the time they were convincing you that you were sick and could not live without them. That was the time they were brainwashing you into thinking that you could not trust your own ability to think for yourself. That was the time they were indoctrinating you into the AA God Way of Life. That was the time they were pretending to be your friends (and the only people who could possibly understand you). That was the opposite of great.

      It’s no surprise that you ended up with a sponsor who disempowered you into thinking that any defiance from the programme was certain “jails, institutions, or death.” For this, I am truly saddened for you and for the millions who have suffered the same. You should have been applauded for everything you were doing to better your life.

      Your deprogramming work is of utmost importance now. You can be PROUD that you got free. You can be CONFIDENT that you can trust your own ability to think since you got out! You can be SURE that you do not need anything they have and you are free to make any choices in your heart. You can now know without a doubt that you are not the broken, selfish, self-centered, pity-pot, unfortunate person they would have you be for the rest of your life.

      Real friends do not treat you the way they did. These people are truly “sicker than others.” You deserve better and it’s never too late to find better. You might love the book in the link below. Also, feel free to contact me anytime. You are not alone. In fact, you are in great company with the vast majority of people who, for whatever reason, ended up in this diabolical cult and ran the other way.

      One more thing, whenever people say things like, “well that never happened to me or anyone I know,” they are burying their heads in the BILLShit quick sand. They are trying to shame you. Reject it and tell them to fuck off.

      Here’s a great book referral about how these sick AA disciples break you down and stop you from listening to your instincts. It’s truly diabolical. This book shows you not only how they do it but what to do and say when they do it. The author won a lawsuit for being illegally mandated to the cult. That’s another whole kettle of fish indeed.

      Be well and know that you are not alone, but in good company of people who have had the same experiences with this horrible cult religion known as the 12 steps… and taken their power back to get out.


  22. Reblogged this on 12 Step Cult Religion Exposed and commented:

    This article has ever 1800 views just today. There are a lot of hurt stepper babies on Facebook behaving abusively at the truth. Please share everywhere.

  23. Although I will not down AA as it has taught me a lot about myself, I agree with many of the statements made. I recently relapsed my own sobriety after 8.5 years. I held certain offices within AA that you’re immediately stripped of due to a relapse. This ties into the feeling of self esteem that this article speaks of. It really rockets your self esteem to another dimension when the time you accrued goes back to one day.

    As a business owner from before I got sober originally, I’ve always had an underlying belief that in AA we are treated like children if we mess up. Crushing the ego is (according to AA) the only way out. Although I don’t believe one has to be an egomaniac to succeed in business, a little bit helps.

    I do believe in a power greater than myself. That said, I don’t feel it controls my life as others do. If anything, it may have hurt me at times. I do now consider myself spiritual but question the dynamics and mixed messages behind it.

    I do now believe in taking responsibility for my actions as any upstanding citizen should. I also feel that helping others should be a part of my life. I DON’T believe that we should shame people for not doing “the work” the way it was laid out if they relapse.

    I was one of those people. Now that I relapsed, knowing I’ve done the work I’m starting to wake up to the fact that there are other ways to remain sober.

    This book was written in 1939. At the time, and to a point today it has helped thousands of people.

    I also feel it has hurt many people and should be kept in the list as an option for sobriety.

    • Hi Scott! Thank you so much for taking the time to comment. This is just about the saddest comment I have seen, and there has been plenty sadness from which to choose. Those people who have played the role of your AA fellowship family have abandoned you in your time of great need. That much is clear.

      You are in shock from the looks and feel of it. They claim that “relapse is part of the process” and then punish and neglect and shame you for being part of that process. You learned a lot in spite of the 12 step cult but you were forced to believe that you would not have learned anything without it. They strip you of your power so that you will give it all to the programme. Then, when you struggle, they throw you out like trash. It’s the ultimate bait and switch gas-lighting abusive cult religion.

      You are not a person with a big ego that needs to be “smashed!” That never applied to you, not for one single second. You gave almost 9 years of your life to this cult and what did you get for it when you really needed their help? Shame. Rejection. Abandonment.

      You see, there is no actual help available in the 12 step cult other than hanging out with people who supposedly know you because they are just like you. Truth is, most of these people are avoiding taking responsibility for their lives and their “powerlessness” is the great excuse for never pursuing their dreams. That’s not you. They allowed you to become a delegate, work for them for free, travel on your own dime, cart around “AA Approved” literature in your car, buy bad cookies, make bad coffee, sweep up cigarette butts… all under the lies of defeating your “personality shortcomings,” “ego,” and “character defects.” All of which now define who and what you are every day for the rest of your life. This is the opposite of genuine help. Again, that’s not you.

      It’s been proven over and over in actual studies that the all-or-nothing of the 12 step cult PROMOTES relapse and subsequent binging. It’s the great self-fulfilling prophesy of “Well, I’ve lost all my time, I might as well just go for it now!” There is nothing helpful about being stripped of all your power only to be told you are nothing without the AA god and meetings for the rest of your life. The subterfuge is then couched in “suggestions” which are really mandates lest you end up in three, and ONLY three, places: Jail, an Institution, or Dead. Come on!

      There was never a time when the book was helpful to anyone. Bill & Bob plagiarized the steps from the fundamental cult religion then known as the Oxford Group, changed to Moral Re-armament and is today known as Initiatives of Change. Now matter what they call it, it is a disempowering set of rules based on fear of “selfishness” and “moral defects.” It is outright religious indoctrination disguised as a “spiritual awakening.” It’s a “fake it till you make it” world where there is no “making it.” It’s all based on keeping you in fear so that you never leave and keep recruiting others to the fold. It’s the most brilliant cult of all time.

      The confusion and sadness you are now experiencing is what happens from being deceived for a very long time. You don’t have to “down AA” to know that what you are feeling is a great sense of loss. They pretend to be your support group but when you need support the most, they shame and vilify you after you did all the “work.” Do not let anyone tell you that you have to start all over again!

      If you enjoy the group setting and abstinence is your goal, you’d be far better off attending SMART meetings either in person or online. SMART trains their facilitators and conducts background checks on them. SMART also was developed by an actual psychologist on the evidence-based help available from Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). SMART EMPOWERS members and encourages them to move on with their lives. The 12 step cult religion shackles members to a life time of thought-control faith-healing meetings disguised as help.

      The 12 step cult religion should come with WARNINGS. That most people do not know what you have just discovered is proof of the cultural brainwashing. Mostly, I am deeply sorry for your loss. They have let you down in a most profound way. You deserve far better treatment than this.

      Here is a link to SMART Recovery:http://www.smartrecovery.org

      Also, please know that you are in great company. The vast majority of people run from the 12 step cult within the first three months of exposure. That you stayed and tried so hard is evidence of your trusting nature and the love in your heart. Those who stay long in the 12 step cult are not deserving of such trust and love… and for that monumental loss, you can grieve now. Eventually, you will find your power, (it’s been there all along) and you will find a path that works far better.

      Thank you again for trusting this forum with your newfound truths.

    • Scott Wasserman, while this isn’t a new article, I think your comment is causing other people in the larger Anti-AA and Pro Recovery to really feel your pain. Yes, there are many options to AA as well a great many people who have left AA and found its ideology very unhealthy. This article link is one such place and SMART is another place. Also, and totally contrary to what AA would say, most of the people who leave AA, whether they become an activist against AA or not (and I’m an activist against AA) eventually go back to drinking moderately. While AA tells people that it is “jail, institutions, death” for a single drink, for most people that is not true. So moderating after a time of abstinence is entirely doable for most people and it is not the situation of the “disease” doing push-ups in the parking lot. But if you want social support, here is a list. Also note that HAMS has a Facebook support group as well, and from there you might find other Anti-AA groups if you want/need to talk more about Deprogramming after AA.

      10 Major Alternatives to AA
      (circa 2016)
      Free Self-Help
      womenforsobriety.org (includes men for sobriety)
      reddit.com (entirely online)

      Help involving paid professionals
      sinclairmethod.com (for alcohol)*
      ibogainealliance.org (for opiates)**

      Sinclair method and Ibogaine use medication to rewire the addiction pathways in the brain
      *most doctors can prescribe the medication Naltrexone, but Goodmancenter.com is a treatment center specifically
      based on the Sinclair method.
      **aftercare is recommended, such as genesisiboganiecenter.com, holistichousevegas.com, and medicineheartrecovery.com

      • Thanks so much Silver.

        This article certainly is new to its expanded audience. Huge Thanks to Cali Estes for helping this article to reach a bigger audience. Never the less, the information in the article is as relevant as the day it was written.

        Thanks to Silver for the exhaustive list!

        Mr. Wasserman, while you are taking all of this in, take it slowly so that you do not become overwhelmed. Your vulnerability at your abandonment by the programme leaves you in a precarious place. Slow and steady wins the race.

    • Scott, congratulations! After 4 long years of really trying to believe the program, I myself walked away realizing that is not who I am nor who I could ever be. I am still upset with myself for being duped into this. I did leave with what was valuable to me and it did help me accomplish what I wanted from it…how to live without drinking. That’s all I wanted and although I learned that within a year, I stayed out of fear and because I did not want to “disappoint” or “fail” in the member’s minds. My friends that I did gain from my time, are still at my side, full support even though I am taking a different route, the others, well I cut them out just like the program taught me to do lol! Anyways, I’m glad that you gained what you could and left when you could no longer benefit. And as for relapse, well you’re human right? You didn’t end up in jails, institutions and you’re clearly not dead, so no big deal! You only are beating yourself up as you were taught to do. I know I will have a drink again at some point, but I have reference enough to choose not to let it ruin my life. I am more fulfilled and found what I enjoy so I no longer need the alcohol to cure my boredom. Thank you for your comment. It is writings such as these that remind me that I did make the right choice for me when fear creeps back up. Keep on keeping on and enjoy life, now that you have more free time lol!

      In your corner Scott,


  24. Gosh…this has been interesting reading. I’ve been in and out of AA for 16 years and 10 of those have been sober “in the programme”. There have been times when I have really loved it and many more when I have felt scared, humiliated, overworked, controlled. I’m just a year sober again now following relapse and have just been forced to leave my sober housing for needing to take Zapain in addition to anti-inflammatories for my chronic arthritis (I have a broken vertebra and a missing rotor cuff in my shoulder, it’s no joke). Just as my life is good – my adult children are happy – I’m back at college studying to be a midwife – BAM. Of course, it’s my fault and my cunning, deceitful, manipulative thinking. I must be wanting to change my feelings. I’m probably not in pain at all. My first sponsor all those years ago did me enormous damage. She was a long-term hard liner and knew better than anyone, of course. She hooked me in emotionally, had me working for her, wanted to send my quite traumatised teenage daughter away to school….gave advice that now horrifies me. I had to call her bang on 7am every day and if I was late she was cold and unpleasant (“If you can’t follow a simple instruction, how can you possibly manage your life?”). Eventually I had several sponsees in the group who had to do the same – so my early mornings were a succession of phone calls and readings whilst my children got themselves dressed.
    It’s only a small insight into what life was often like.
    I do believe that I have almost zero control over my drinking and that my emotions are what lead me to drink. Granted. Is this the only answer? NO. But the fear and self-doubt is so crippling. I had a housemate who quizzed me about the painkillers. His argument was that he didn’t know me and that I was deceiving myself. And whilst he was at it, any protest I make is because I’m deceiving myself all the time, right?? I’m dangerous and need to leave so I don’t contaminate people. And also, he’s sure that I’ve been behaving weirdly. Did I just PRETEND to clean the kitchen the other day? He was sure that it hadn’t been cleaned….YES I cleaned the f****** kitchen!!! This is insane!!! Aha…you’re getting angry…you must be guilty. You look guilty. I hope for your own sake that you aren’t lying. Etc etc etc. I feel so frightened that I’m heading out of the Fellowship. They have an answer to everything and the answer is always YOU ARE WRONG. I’m sat here writing this – knowing that these are my true feelings – and in the back of my mind is “are you just manipulating?” “you’re staying with non-AA friends and they are SO easy to manipulate”.
    I grew up with a very controlling parent and an alcoholic mother. The controlling of AA is initially reassuring because it is what you are used to. My father loves me being in AA because they represent that control. I swear to God that I’ve never fully conquered my childhood abuse issues in AA – just endlessly vanished up my own backside “owning my part” and “practicing forgiveness and acceptance”. Everything that has happened to me? I need to be responsible for that. Any pain caused to my damaging parental relationships by my drinking? I’m responsible for THAT too, and must make amends. I’m responsible for my damage and responsible for anyone else’s damage and despite all this I DON’T KNOW WHAT I’M DOING AND NEED SOMEONE ELSE – SOME OTHER INDOCTRINATED AMATEUR – TO TELL ME, RIGHT???. Therapists are dangerous (we manipulate them) and so is questioning (it’s a slippery slope). Never do what feels right to you. Always do what some unqualified flawed human with an agenda tells you to do. I have really had enough. I think it will take some work to get over the indoctrination aspect – it’s bloody hard to work against a theory that tells you every word you say in an attempt to be honest is dishonest and cunning. Help me.

    • Thank you so much for trusting this forum with your very powerful truth Hilary! All this time, you have been abused and shamed and traumatized when you should have been embraced and enlightened and helped. The 12 step cult religion has never treated your individual needs but has preyed on your past treatment and parenting. All this time …

      And yet, you are still strong and powerful enough to recognize that it will take you some time to deprogram and that you still need help. (Huge understatement!) For that alone, you can be enormously PROUD. The majority of brain damaged steppers get extremely angry at these truths… they brush it off, they dismiss it and attempt to explain it away, they attack with ad hominem BILLShit. Not you. You see the truth An do you think enough of yourself to ask for real help.

      You do not have to waste one more second with these abusive gaslighting amateurs. You deserve better, you always have, and you always will. By the sound and feel of it, you will never turn into an ‘oldtimer’ with a posse of ‘sponsees’ doing 12 stepgodwork. (Give yourself your first break by knowing that those you did sponsor at least had YOU for their sponsor and you could never be the abusive assholes who sponsored you)!!!!

      Contact me at ldyluk47@yahoo.com and we will find you someone or some group qualified (evidence based help rather than abusive faith healing disguised as help), in your area.

      Nice work!

      • Twelve step programs are a mother load of bad ideas. They make a lot of cliches claims some mihht sound good to the one that voices them. But we maybtske a look at it with a critical eye. Not in bad spirit but in the fact that they frequently speak metaphorically. Other times they are too isoteric that many prople have to sit around trying to dicifer what they are saying leading many people to misunderstanding the message.

        As any good religion they belive themselves to be sacred anf that they are dealing with spme supernatural divinity. Yet there is no real evidence that God or Gods are leading their voices. So sometimes one find speakers like free associating without knowing the impact they are having on their audience. Many of us notice that speakers are frequently embellishing their message to thebpoint that one can not recognize what is the truth

    • I have so much to say. Please forgive the delay in responding!

      I only have a quick moment now but I wanted to make a suggestion for further reading for you. You could benefit from reading the book, “How AA Steals Your Soul” by Robert Warner. Warner won his court case against coerced attendance in the cult and self-published a book to help others. It is a brilliant look at now only how they do it but what to do in the face of it. Precisely what you are looking for.

      I will follow up with more but this is a good start for now. Keep on fighting for your rights Hilary. You are in great company.

      • I find AA to be esoteric in there expression
        That their statements is like a two edge sword.

        What people don’t realize is that AA best product is failure. People perception of AA effectiveness is based on Confirmation Biases.

        They want to believe is so effective that they only see it when “AA works”. Members fail to look at AA failures.


        • Yes! Every page of their bigbookbible is filled with nothing but “because we say so” bias of nonsense confirmations of what big pieces of shit they are. It’s all a terrible, never ending self-fulfilling prophesy.

          Even more, members fail to accept the truth by lashing out and threatening those who even hint at the truth. They have learned that the only way to not be abused is to become the abuser first. A preemptive strike. It’s s really sick.

          • I live in a small community ( in a European city) where the AA Club is well managed and manipulated by the few dominant ‘old timers’. You are in, or out. I’m gratefully out, for years now, but I occasionally pass by their cafe coffee klatches and make sure to look my best, give them all a cheery greeting, and hopefully ruin their day.

            • Lol! No matter how often they chant “happy, joyous, and free” they are lying to themselves about how to get there… which makes them forever miserable, depressed, and shackled.

              A life well lived is the best way to live a good life. They are living in a dictatorship and chanting how “grateful” they are to live in prison, a self-imposed prison. How ridiculous!

  25. We need to start demanding not yo spend any more public funds to promote AA by all if these treatment facilities.

    Demand the ACLU to act in the interests of the American citizens. As treatment AA is pseudoscientific and fraudulent. Patients ought to be suiting for malpractice.

  26. Good stuff. I hope we can at some point unite and find a way to get this woo nonsense out of our hospitals and legal system. It’s appalling that the 12 Step fellowships are still the default treatment for people at this point in time. I have no doubt that these fellowships are killing people. They destroy self-esteem, deny modern science (e.g. MAT, which is proven to work and save lives), and leave people very vulnerable to predators.

    • No doubt. Thank you so much for commenting. Please share everywhere.

    • Absolutely! Very well stated. Thank you. Please share everywhere.

      • The problem is that judges and people in the mental health field are as Science Illiteracy and lack of critical thinking. The universities and schools themself do not teach much science. At best they only teach very basic science.

        One survey done by Butler in 1998 found that only 28% ever read any science. That means than an alarming 72% rarely if ever do. They’ll pay lip service to science. They may even use scientific sounding words. But they are basically illiterates on the subject.

        If interested I suggest Dr. Scott Lillienfeld and Berry Beyerstein. Then look at their references and you’ll find other authors. In fact the internet is full of articles and YouTube. My favorites are Neil DeGrassy Tyson a Cosmologists and Lawrence Krauss a Physicist. They are both concern about science education.

        Science is not as hard as we have been told and we tell ourselves. There is actually quite a bit of Selffullfilling Prophesy that can operates in our believe system about science. Those habits maybe a little harder to get off your brain. If you spend about an hour a day (I spend three because I find information and knowledge is power) you become a lot more literate in understanding how the universe operate.

        I call AA a mother load of bad ideas.

        You’ll be able to better questions those things that got you stocked in AA. And refute the Bill shit they promote. Everything in AA is not Bull shit. But I say the substantial majority is. Rendering ineffective, so they spend a lot of time prompting bad ideas that most of us suspected from the beginning but were unable to discuss.

  27. I find myself in a quandary at a late date in life getting clean again. And there is no way in hell we’re on gods green earth that I am going to a meeting. Or should I say a fucking meeting? Of course I should.
    I have tried Smart recovery which was lame, the meetings I went to. Like a warm fuzzy come by our session talking about how your week went and changing diapers and blah blah blah. I really think, for me, anything focusing on not doing something only empowers whatever it is I’m resisting. I’ve had the most bitter experiences of my life, many of them, in AA, and probably even more in narcotics anonymous. The Internet was my only friend when I sought validation for what I was feeling. A few of my “friends” in the program nodded their heading some sort of vague, lobotomy-inspired Version of humoring me. By choice and force I spent this first week clean alone and Thanksgiving alone today. I don’t know if I’m reaching out of what I’m doing here or if I will even hear from anyone, but if you have anything to say, please do.

    • Thank you for taking the time to comment! I have a lot to say.

      First of all, your frustration comes from the idea that people are somehow “dirty” if they are not “clean.” We should never define ourselves “clean” when that presupposes we are “dirty” otherwise. We also should never label ourselves or others as “alcoholic” or “addict.” Never. Defining ourselves as someone who is “selfish, self-centered, the actor trying to run the entire show” only serves to strip us of our innate power.

      You are absolutely correct, if we focus on what NOT to do or be in life, our focus is only going to lead us back to the forbidden activity or action. The 12 step cult religion is the ultimate self-fulfilling prophesy. These people, unlike you, have no problem “acting as if” and “faking it till they [never] make it” all the while chanting chants at you that only serve to confuse, shame, and guilt you into “keep coming back.” Unless you force yourself to believe all this disempowering shit, you are not in the best place for you. Your part? Believing those who would rather use a fake disease as an excuse to never move on with their lives and lord power of those with less “time’ or mock “normies.” What a horrible life. You deserve better!

      So, you need not define yourself by whether or not you are “clean.” Harm Reduction techniques will help you in a week more than a lifetime of the 12 step cult BILLShit. The idea of meetings at all is a 12 step cult invention to keep the “roomz” full since they would not be full otherwise and this cult would have faded into oblivion right along side its predecessor cult, the Oxford Group. You do not need meetings at all to help you live a better, honest life full of joy and integrity. The idea of meetings stems from the cult leaders manipulating members to devote their lives to the cult based on their “spiritual sickness.” What a crock of never-ending shit. I am truly sorry you are all on your own during the holidays. Holiday are tough for everyone but they are also a time for self-reflection and discovery.

      Your “best” thinking did not get you to abuse yourself and make mistakes with others, your WORST thinking did that! They will mind-fuck you until the day you die if you follow their shitty advice.

      Read the book “How AA Steals Your Soul” (link below) by Robert Warner. He won his court case against coerced attendance in this cult and self-published a book about his experiences. He is also very open to communication and will respond to you if you email him. He explains exactly how and why they do it and most importantly, how to take your power back when they chant their slogan lies at you or anyone else. Let the zombies have it right in the brain! See Rowland, you are in great company. You do not have to isolate yourself from others in order to feel safe.

      Then, check out the Harm Reduction handbook written by the incomparable Kenneth Anderson. (link below) Just the first few exercises will have you feeling better about your choices each day and will teach you more than you could ever get from the 12 step cult. Ken is also available for correspondences and has an online radio show.

      These are just two referrals for you. Start here and see where this takes you. You are on a journey, never too late to start. You believed them when they insisted that if you keep coming back some magical happiness will be bestowed upon you. They lied.

      Also, feel free to contact me privately anytime at ldyluk47@yahoo.com and I will return your email as soon as possible. Have a great weekend Rowland and know that you are in great company with your concerns here.

      Much love to you today and always.

    • Rowland, I am also not a fan of AA or SMART. I have found that trying new things and venturing out on adventures by myself (sometimes my friends can be lame) has greatly helped me. I too spent thanksgiving solo, and christmas will be the same. Its only a day and then when I wake up its back to everyday hustle and bustle. Keeping busy has been my answer besides talking whatever Im dealing with out with the people I trust. I hope you find your outlet.


    • Just checking in to see how you’re doing. No need to write back unless you desire to do so.

      Just wanted you to know someone was thinking of you and wishing you true joy, happiness and freedom.

      • Well thank you so very much! I am just fantastic and ready to kick ass 2017! I have new amazing people in my life that found me, and guess what, they have never been part of AA!!! Ups and downs, but nothing I cannot figure out. I am happy that you wrote to me, and I am always happy to read your thoughts and articles as well as what others have to say. It’s quite refreshing! I hope you have a phenomenal holiday and feel free to drop a line whenever!

        Kick ass 2017!!


        On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 3:25 PM, 12 Step Cult Religion Exposed wrote:

        > 12 Step Cult Religion Exposed commented: “Just checking in to see how > you’re doing. No need to write back unless you desire to do so. Just wanted > you to know someone was thinking of you and wishing you true joy, happiness > and freedom.” >

        • I have a tremendous problem when I think that an organization like the Americam Civil Liberties Union or any other Secular, or Freethinkers Organization have not taken on so called rebabilitation facilities that uses the Twelve Step of Alcoholics Anonymous as their dominant “treatment” approach. A substantial number of these facilities are funded with government tax payers money.

          There are atleast seven Federal Court decisions that founds AA to be substantially religious including prayer to some sort God and expecting devine intervention. I though tbe United States believe in the Separation Between Religion and Government Agencies. Millions if not Trillions of dollars have been wasted in the pass fourty years promoting and authoritative “treatment approach” that was not tested for effectiveness much less safety before it invaided the Substance Used Treatment Industry…. It’s continuos used eventhough it lack effectiveness and safety can’t be anything other than frauded.

          It is my impression that AAs growth is not based on its effectiveness. It is clear that its best product is failure for the grand majority of people who have been exposed to its treatment.

          AAs growth is based on the thousands of facilities who promotes the lie that the twelve steps is the sole method for individual to gain recovery from substance use disorder.

          These government funded facilities are not only violating the Establishment Clause of the constitution. But it is peudoscientigic in its practice. The grand majority of these facilities director and staff most know that AA is a dismal failure for the grand majority of their patients who try it. TREATMENT STAFF clearly don’t learn from their experience as they are not having any better outcome than they did from the start… We get much better outcomes from AIDs patient who know are able to survive a disease that used to be a death sentence but a decade ago. The medical field also get much better outcome from fullblown Schizophrenics who were considered much worst difficult patients.

          I fail to see the lack of action from the legal community, legislators and congress. But much worst from the clinical medical community whose vast majority keep silent while knowinh that these patients are not only sufferimg from lack of appropiet help, but that frequently a good number of patient worsen their condition due to lack of effecyive help

  28. The reason that many people stay in AA is that nagging fear that if they leave they will start to drink excessively again.

    Is the same fear Christian have about no longer believing. They fear they go to Hell if they die. What if am wrong?

    Members tell you stories of old timers that stop coming to meetings. Only to have horrible relapses. Members don’t know about those that leave never to be heard of again because they are fine.

    • That’s very true Carlos. “The only requirement is a desire to stop drinking.” Which means they will never hear from people who have actually recovedED. Those people do not exist. Or if they do, they were never “real alcoholics” to begin with. It all an enormous bait and switch. Damned if you do, jail-institution-dead if you don’t.

      This is why people feel so deeply betrayed when they realize they do not need that kind of mind control to make choices and feel better about themselves. Their “fellows” are trump-type frauds.

  29. Can you please provide me a suggestion that is free and available 24 hours a day?

    Thank you!!

  30. The Occult 12 Step Ethos is particularly harmful to young people-especially teens. Sending kids to AA or other 12 Step programs- to the same rooms where judges are sending much older addicts and predators- is ABUSIVE.

    It’s also unconscionable to teach people [particularly people in their teens] that they have an incurable progressive lifelong disease over which they’re powerless.

    In a nutshell, here is the 12 step dystopian model:

    AA sponsors and elder members ALWAYS Hammering away at new comers and vulnerable young addicts with endless tales of human misery, oppression, and disease.

    Years and years and years of browbeating, indoctrination and bullying–like: “you’re sick– you’re diseased– you’re insane– you’re best thinking got you here– you’ll never really recover– once and addict always an addict– you’re spiritually sick–you’re thinking is flawed– you have endless character defects that you’ll never be rid of–you must humiliate yourself daily by confessing your sins to the group and TO ME, your emotionally unbalanced sponsor— you can’t do it without US– your only alternative to a life of 12 step dystopia is “jails, institutions and death”— don’t think for yourself, it will kill you— Don’t use your logic- it will cause you to relapse– let your mentally ill sponsor do your thinking for you–without US your future only holds jails, institutions and death— Your “Intellect” and “pride” in self-empowerment will kill You— You are a victim, you were born with this disease and it’s getting worse-even if you stop using— You M U S T love and tolerate all reprehensible, criminal behavior otherwise you’re intolerant, unloving and hateful— you MUST accept US – this “group of drunks”- as your GOD– you MUST turn your life and will over to US because you can’t live life by yourself— you’re not a capable human being—– and on and on and on ad nauseam.

    Going forward, let’s use a science based, logic based, reality based support system to help struggling addicts rather than the ineffective, disastrous 12 step ethos. The C H O I CE —– 1920s Psycho [Frank Buchman] Occult Spiritualism’s “soul surgery” and Mindless mystical magical pseudo- science Quackery of Marty Mann, Bill Wilson and Bob Smith or 21St century 2017 modern day science

  31. Hi, my name is Brian and I’m an alcoholic………no, just kidding, 🙂

    I am 59 and have either had a pill in my mouth, a drink in my hand, a needle in my arm or looking for nosy candy since I was 17. A long time, huh. I trace it all back to my childhood. But since I also believe in reincarnation, I am hoping that I’ve worked off a lot of crappy karma in this lifetime.

    I refuse to define myself as an alcoholic. I’ve used my whole adult life and suffered greatly for it. I moved to SF in 92 or 3. You have to understand it was a different time back then. My God is both inside and outside. I was living on the street in SF after my money ran out (“my” money was my stolen Dad’s credit card). But my inner voice directed me to a bus shelter with a map of S.F.. There I saw a hospital on the map with a red cross (not THE red cross sign), more like drawn on with a red crayon (but the only red cross on the map). I guess that was my deepest depth of sorrow then. I walked into the hospital crying and an emergency room nurse referred me to an inpatient treatment center. I ended up doing that center for 8 wks (AA mandated) then a second center which did not require AA for 8 wks. Then I was FREE.

    But my freedom came at a heavy price. Initially, my sponsor approached me and said he would like to work with me. I would go to his apt once a week just to talk about stuff in general, then he would drive me to the AA meeting which he attended too. I’m gay and I was fairly sure he was; he was a bit strange too. Anyways, I worked the steps up to step 5 which I planned to do at this apartment. So (I was in my wee 20s and he looked to be around 50). So I get halfway through my moral inventory when he dragged me into his living room and RAPED me! I left AA, pretty much shut out the whole thing from my mind up until now and my therapist wants me to go to a PTSD program.

    I have never defined myself as an alcoholic. From the streets of San Francisco, I worked hard at a social service agency for 4 yrs when a coworker (Joan, you sweetheart) got her son who worked at a huge financial services firm to refer me for a position. I got the job, rose up the ladder quickly, made some good coin, enough to go to Europe 5-6 times. That success story is how I define myself.

    Now I am 59 and disabled which is a whole other story. But my cardiologist said (3 months ago) that if I don’t quit drinking I’ll be dead in a yr. I’m in an 8 wk program now which is heavily AA oriented. I usually speak my mind and can see people seething, but with my history, I don’t give a flying F. I have to do the program. If there ever is a need to get a liver transplant, you won’t even be considered until you have a completed program under your belt.

    Anyways, hope I didn’t cause anyone to fall asleep. Sorry for taking up so much space. But it felt good defining my narrative and let other people see it. 35 days of no alcohol/drug use so far. Best regards, Brian

    • How brave and honest you are Brian! Thank you so much for trusting this forum with your powerful life story. The ending has yet to be written!

      Your story of assault is far more common in this dangerous cult religion than most people can ever fathom. I am so sorry that this sick individual committed this horrific crime against you. Even when members of the cult go to the group and ask for help, they are told to forgive their rapist and to “find their part” in the assault. These 12 step ‘oldtimers’ would rather protect each other than face the fact that they are complicit in these crimes against very vulnerable people just looking for help. I am so sorry.

      They can never take away your sense of self-respect no matter what crazy shit they pull. They can also never take away your fully intact sense of humor! You are hella funny! After all you’ve been through, to have kept your sense of humor is to be applauded and admired! You can be forever proud of all that! They can force you (for now anyway) into this cult for your liver’s sake but they can never strip you of your dignity. How I would love to be a fly on the wall when you share in these meetings making them seeth with anger at the truth. Keep coming back assholes.

      A great writer comes from an authentic heart and voice and you are one great writer. Never again apologize for your voice. I can promise you that your life is fascinating and no one will ever be bored by it! Please writer more if you are moved to do so. In would be fascinating to hear more about your time in meetings speaking the truth with these brainwashed people!

      Just please keep this in mind. Your “time” clean and sober is YOUR accomplishment. This cult will demand you give all credit to the “roomz” when you have made a choice with or without the cult dogma. Take credit! Every second of every day we make a choice when we ingest a substance or behave in any given way.

      It is understood and honored that you have been forced into the 12 step cult religion… just do not ever let them take away your POWER. Steppers may not be able to afford a perfectly normal feeling like the dreaded resentment, but stuffing down feelings and blaming oneself is one sure fire way of getting very sick. That’s why they chant the “some are sicker than others” chant! They’re all sick but some are bat-shit, “born that way” sick. It’s all a self-fulfilling prophesy of self-blame and fear-mingering and abuse. Those who embrace the 12 step cult learn pretty quickly that if they are not the abused, they must become the abusers. You are far too integrated to embrace that shit!

      You’re simply an awesome person and don’t you ever forget that. Thank you again for commenting. Thanks for the love and laughter. Laura

  32. Simply and honestly stated: [Fake] Brain Disease 12 step programs insist that you maintain your alcohol and/or drug focused life so that you can continue drinking or drugging while pleading that you are “powerless” over your “disease.” Those who can kick the [fake] brain disease 12 step habit, are those who have something other than alcohol and/or drugs to build their lives around. For me, it was fitness and grandkids. I became a triathlete and an Abuelo.

  33. I could NOT have said this better. Years of AA and NA got me nowhere except into a never ending cycle, of “sobriety” and “relapse”. What worked best for me? I moved halfway across the country. Starting fresh. Knowing no one and no one knew me. I’ve been clean and sober over 5 years now WITHOUT. NA and\or AA. 12 step meetings only constantly tempted me. With all the glorification of drugs and alcohol. Starting over fresh meant having no choice. Was I really going to walk up to random strangers and ask them to point me in the direction of the dope man? Hell no! How humiliating would that be? I detoxed myself for a week motel crappy little motel in Baltimore, Maryland. I then got on the Greyhound bus and headed straight for New Orleans, Louisiana. And I never looked back. Well I mean unless you count going for my mom’s funeral and visiting my brother at Christmas but that’s not looking back. That’s life. 9 years of alcoholism and addiction cured by nothing more than relocation. I do not believe that alcoholism and addiction are incurable and the whole once an addict always an addict BS. If they can cure syphilis and gonorrhea, chlamydia and herpes, and all these other diseases that are raging around the world, why the hell would addiction be incurable? Because as a has-been addict I’m not going to sit here and wallow in my self-loathing, and say that it wasn’t my fault. Fuckin right it was my fault! Nobody held a gun to my head and made me drink, and shoot up. Nobody told me I had to. Nobody threatened the well-being of my family and friends if I refused. I did it all on my own. I did it because I wanted to. Therefore, yes, it’s my fault I got hooked. It’s all my fault. There is no disease to blame for why I did drugs. For why I sat in bars all night, drinking, and literally could not remember that night the next morning. It’s not like schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is to blame for the hallucinations it’s schizophrenics have. And the paranoia. There is no disease to blame for what I did to myself. It took sheer willpower, and blatant refusal to continue living that life, for me to get my life together. NA and AA only had me sitting there thinking about everything that I used to do that I missed doing. I didn’t even want to miss doing it. Hearing them glorify drug and alcohol use all day long certainly makes you miss it tho. You want a cure? Get off your ass and do something for yourself. Stop sitting there wallowing in self-pity, telling yourself how it’s not your fault. Cuz believe me nobody stuck that needle in your arm for you. Nobody dumped that shot down your throat. Nobody stuck that pipe in your mouth or shoved that powder up your nose. You did that all on your own. And now you can fix it all on your own. AA and NA are pure denial. THEY are the problem!

    • They certainly are! The 12 step cult will keep you stuck in a dangerous cycle until you die, while forcing you to give all credit to them for your very pathetic, stalled, sad excuse of a life.

      You are brilliant and funny! Keep coming back!

      • It’s ridiculous. And people say I am “running from my problem” and it will “catch up to me”. Here’s how it caught up to me, I live with one of my best friends, and her husband and their five month old daughter. They have a pint of Fireball whiskey in the freezer and a half of some kind of vodka. I’m that alcoholic who looks right past it when I open the freezer door. It doesn’t bother me. It doesn’t come to me. And I’m sure as fuck not drinking it. Find me one AA “old timer” who can do that and I’ll keep my rude comments to myself. The denial of the anonymous self-help programs is, saying that it’s not their fault. That it’s not their fault they got addicted to drugs and alcohol. Or even gambling and sex. Because, you do it because you want to. That’s your fault. Just like if you wanted to punch a 13 year old, when you got to jail for child abuse, there would be no way to sit in front of a judge and say it’s not my fault I have a problem. You have a problem you do what you want to do. The way to fix your problem is to start doing what you know deep down is right. Not just whatever happens to tempt you. And thank you. I do try to be funny. LOL but I’m also being serious. It really pisses me off for people to say oh no it’s not my fault that I’m a junkie I have a disease. Sure you might have HIV but that’s not why you’re using drugs. HIV is a disease. Cancer is a disease. Parkinson’s is a disease. Most people don’t intentionally go looking to get HIV. And a good amount of people do get it through sexual intercourse not just shooting drugs. People don’t seem to get HIV. Nobody wants to get cancer. Nobody wants to get the Parkinson’s, belive me. I have early onset Parkinson’s. It’s not a game and it is not something anybody wants. So don’t make up an imaginary disease as an excuse for what you’ve done wrong. We’ve all done our share of fucked up shit. Take responsibility for it or don’t. But don’t make excuses. AA and NA teach you to make excuses for your past. They teach you lack of responsibility. That nothing you do is your fault because you were born with some kind of brain disease that made you use drugs and alcohol. Well I served in the military for almost eight years, so I doubt I had any kind of brain disease. The USMC only takes the best of the best. There’s nothing wrong with me. Except poor judgement. That is what’s the blame for me being addicted to drugs and alcohol. Poor judgement. I shouldn’t have been doing drugs, and I shouldn’t have been drinking. And I fuckin knew that. But I did it anyway. So it’s my fault. LOL. For real tho

    • AA and 12 Step programs in general- whether in treatment facilities or church basements, are all definitely cults of sickness, despair, hopelessness, powerlessness, disease, fear and unhealthy co-dependence. That’s why I call the 12 step approach “The Dystopian Model.” The majority of people I’ve encountered in the past 15 years, do preach the “I have an alcoholic mind,” “I’ll always be powerless” foolishness and do subscribe to the “chronic brain disease,” fictitious concept of addiction.

      They constantly whimper and whine about having a “diseased mind” regardless of the years or decades that have passed since their last drink. They strike me as being absolutely IN LOVE with their so called “disease.” It’s their “best friend.” They are like toddlers who, growing into adolescence, refuse to give up their security blankets and teddy bears.

      According to most of them, they are NOT responsible for any of the bad choices they’ve made in life. You see, it’s their “disease” that’s choosing for them. Like some big bad boogieman, this dark force does push-ups in the parking lot, stalks them 24 hours a day and grows stronger and stronger by the minute. So, they see themselves as perpetual victims who shouldn’t be held accountable for their own poor decisions and choices. This is pure BS!

      I’ve never seen and heard so many people celebrating-even lionizing- the childish belief in their own continued weakness, sickness and depravity even though they’ve stopped drinking [drugging] years – even decades before. Some [most] claim that they have a “diseased mind” and they are in many ways, worse [or as bad] off now, twenty years later, than they were when they were actively abusing alcohol.

      They even take a strange and perverse pride in this constant, continual moaning and blubbering about how their sickness and disease still plagues them in all of their affairs.

      The AA (12 step) Disease Model Doesn’t Work— It Even Does More Harm than Good. It sets people up for failure. It makes matters worse than they are. It stigmatizes people for life, and worst of all, it brutalizes and brainwashes the young.

      PS It’s impossible to have a “diseased MIND.” Here’s the definition of mind:

      1.(in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges

      2In .Psychology:. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

    • Owning up to YOUR CHOICES and YOUR DECISIONS, well kudos! Adulting is fun and freeing isn’t it! Way to see the strength that you posess and utilize it to grow. Welcome back to YOUR life 😄

  34. This is an interesting insight into the AA philosophy in which mistakes, failures, flaws and defects are the BEST parts of human existence. It’s from a discussion on another site with an AA acolyte:

    Brian Thrasher posts:
    Feb 8, 2017

    If you are just stating out … Your still in the old you… Stay strong , minute by minute , hour by hour , one day at a time , the streanth will come
    Feb 9 Berry Chastain replies
    Mistakes are the portals of discovery.
    James Joyce [thanks Gene H.]
    And from the How It Works,, ” we seek spiritual progress, not spiritual perfection.”
    So don’t ever get discouraged..
    Here is my answer to that over which I am sure to get savaged and eviscerated. {LOL}

    To: +Berry Chastain +Brad D

    Why would anyone want to constantly focus on the misery of a dreary and blighted past? Why would anyone want to spend so much time confessing [sharing] character defects, personality flaws, failures and mistakes and then pretend that they are ‘Portals’ to discovery that lead to spiritual progress?

    It’s very odd to do that. It’s dystopian in nature. For me, the portals of discovery are reality, truth, reason, logic, success, soundness and virtue. The AA promise that states, “We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it” is counterproductive-even harmful. Why? Why would anyone want to always [on a regular daily basis] relive the desolate and bleak experiences of a dismal past? It’s senseless and shameful.
    It doesn’t help anyone.

    I look not to the past but rather to the future because that’s where I’m going to spend the rest of my life. The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.

    • The reasons why they do are answered in you response. They want to stay stuck in the miserly of the past so that they are forever “diseased” and “powerless” therefore, they never need take responsibility for their lives.

      They also do it so that they can laud their “time” over vulnerable people and “normies.” Their membership in this despicable cult religion is all they’ve got going for themselves. Their abusive, gaslighting assholes. That’s why.

  35. Alcoholics Anonymous claims to be: “. . . a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. . . . Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety”

    These words sound positive and hopeful, but they do not describe the true workings or intent of AA. To be plain, there is ample evidence that AA is in reality a religious cult masquerading as a self-help group. Its adherents actively indoctrinate newcomers to their way of thinking using overt and subtle misinformation, intimidation, and false promises. They routinely prey on a population subset of sick people at their weakest, namely desperate alcoholics. Through ancillary groups like Al-Anon and Alateen, AA also attempts tobring the families of alcoholics into their cult. Unless AA offers something tangible, verifiable, and repeatedly helpful to these people, it is not just deceitful but dangerous.

    This might sound like an astounding accusation to anyone who has not been maltreated by AA—or studied it carefully. Likewise, you may know seemingly happy recovering alcoholics who swear by the allegedly benign and benevolent nature of the AA program. You may be one yourself. Those who believe they remain sober solely by strict adherence to the AA program and there are thousands—generally have nothing but praise for the program.

    But if thousands have recovered when millions have tried, then the best that can be said is that the success rate is low. The worst that can be said is: for every happily recovering anonymous alcoholic there are hundreds [thousands] who have found the program at best worthless and at worst a curse or even a death sentence. Ironically, I have often heard it said in AA meetings that to be successful in one’s recovery, one must “. . . step over the bodies.”

    • Thanks Mick! This is awesome and just the start of how this dangerous cult religion “works.” They insist on labeling you (and that you forever label yourself) “alcoholic” or a member by association like in alanon.

      No matter how these brainwashed people balk, they are merely parroting the negative labels forced upon them at their very first mind-Fuck meeting. Quite the opposite is true when they chant the “happy, joyous and free” lie. They are forever miserable, depressed and shackled to a thought-control (and dangerous) cult religion. They don’t have a ‘disease’ nor are they ‘powerless’ either but they are too much in fear DAILY of becoming “one of the unfortunates” again. It’s all a big fat LIE.

  36. That picture of the late, great Robin W. says it all.

    • So sad. So unnecessary. And so common. People brainwashed into the 12 step cult religion often have untreated depression. If you’re convinced that you’re “diseased” and “powerless” and nothing but a “character-defective” drunk full of “born that way” “personality shortcomings” it’s easy to choose suicide. Even for a brilliant, famous, great actor like Robin Williams.

  37. Fucking brilliant! After 8 years in and out of the rooms, I found my own way. While there are folks I met in the rooms whom I Love and care about and there definitely is something to the idea that alcoholics talking with other alcoholics does good for all sides, the 12 steps aren’t the reason – mutual understanding of similar experiences and empathy is.

    • The polar opposite of the dangerous cult religion known as the 12 steps is what people need. Those people are stuck for all eternity. Mutual respect and understanding is destroyed if you find “your own way.” In fact, you are threatened if you do with “I’ll pray for you” and the “easier, softer, way” and the “jails, institutions, or death” being the three and the ONLY three places you will end up should you leave the cult. There is no mutual understanding in such an environment. Nice work! Get out and stay out.

  38. Hi.
    Well written and with wit!
    I walked out AA few days ago,after almost 4 years.I done some service,had a sponsor and I was sponsoring people.But I felt deep down inside that I am selling people bullshit.I tried to be true believer,but i could not.My depression was striking me badly,an I heard that I need to say prayers and be grateful.I heard also no to take antidepressants because it’s mind altering.I know that AA may help some people but i can’t stand no longer that self-rightousness and deity-dependence.This is my last walkout I hope,I done it many times,but I justified that as resentment.I liked some people in AA(and still have friends among),but sees that creepy program just zombiefied once natural people.I am happy to find this page and feel that I am not alone(I sign myself for CBT already and reading Stanton peele) and I am not doomed;)
    All the best!!
    (Sorry for grammar,English is my 2nd language)

    • No need to apologize. Thank you so much for commenting. You are in great company here. The vast majority of people leave the 12 step cult religion and never look back. In 4 years, they have successfully convinced you that you are somehow so sick that your own ability to think has forever been compromised. BillShit!

      You are in the vast majority. The people who stay in the 12 step cult are those who have been so severely brainwashed, they are too afraid to leave. Of course, that is by design. If you leave, you die. Steppers chant all kinds of “proof” of some incomprehensible, incurable, “doing push-ups in the parking lot” disease, all designed to keep people dependent of the cult for the rest of their lives. Of course it’s all bullshit but for the very vulnerable, it works. Too bad they are living a big lie. Deep down people know they are not fundamentally broken but they are too terrified to leave.

      The only other demographic the “program” works for, are predators and criminals. Since this cult recruits from jails, and people are mandated by judges, these “rooms” are filled with rapists and conmen (and women). They continue their crimes under the protection of “character defects.”

      The third group is people like you. People looking for help but unable to push their instincts down for too long. Genuinely compassionate people who deep down know better than to label themselves as “powerless” and “one of the unfortunates.” It’s all a LIE.

      You can forgive yourself for struggling to get out and you can reject the blame for leaving. That’s all part of the brainwashing. They found early on that if they completely destroyed the self-esteem of the “newcomer” they were more likely to “keep coming back.” In the 1940’s this cult had few members and in order to grow in numbers, they devised all kinds of ways of destroying confidence in prospects by labeling and demolishing self-sufficiency. Forgive yourself and proudly move on.

      It sounds like you will really get a lot of help from the book, “How AA Steals Your Soul” by Robert Warner. The author was coerced by the courts to attend cult meetings in order to keep his job. He wrote a brilliant little book regarding how they do it exactly, why they do it, and how to get out. For good. He also won his lawsuit. It’s all documented in book. See link below.

      You are obviously highly intelligent and honorable. You cannot in good conscience stay in the “programme” without lying to yourself and others. Take your dignity and honor back and hold your head high for getting out before it was too late. Nice work!!


    • Free at last… Well done, Thomas

      • Thank You Papamick!! 🙂
        I already received few comments that I’m on wrong way.Some group members stoped calling me etc.But I expected that,I was acting the same way before.I know that I need to exercise my will and simply empower myself.I am not fucking hopeless,powerless.i I don’t delude myself anymore,that my life is unmamagable without steps,meetings and will of Divine Sheriff upstairs.:)))

  39. If you want to stop or slow down your drinking. People should take a look at the Sinclear Approach. The research was done in Finnland, I believe. Is suppose to have an 80 % effectiveness using Naltrexone medication. Miami has a clinic. And seems like most major cities have a clinic. They actually want you to drink while using medication.

    Hester and Miller out of University of New Mexico also seem to be having good at least much better outcome than AA.

  40. YES, THE DOCUMENTRY “ONE LITTLE PILL” can be seen in YouTube. Or I think you can download it with a Magnet App from one of the Mirrors of Pirate Bay.

    • Am speaking a campaing to get people to complain to their local ACLU to add law suite on federal courts. To stop judges(specially Drug Court), probation/parole, department of corrections (who are government agents) from referring or mandating people to attend any of the religion of all X Anonymous programs. Or any of the 90% or so Treatment Facilities or agencies who are dominated by or even forceing patients to attend AA type religious programs.

      I have no doubt that these types of referrals are FUELING the growth of AA type programs. Without those referrals I have no doubt that this will slow down. These AA programs are really truelly not very effective programs no matter how much hogwash, double talk cliches and missinformation are spited out by proponents whether they are license professionals or not.

      Unknown to the general populations been a license professional in the field of mental health but specialy substance use treatment doesn’t guarantee there competent to perform effective treatment. The licensing board to these professions have substantially lower the standard of scientific literacy and skills at reading and understanding the scientific journals of these profession. Professionals in these fields have been surveyed and results have shown that only about 28% of professionals in these field ever read science type journals or participate in science base seminar. That means that the substantial majority or 72% of these professionals DO NOT. I mean, that’s always been alarming to mean. As I continuosly see the harm done toward their patients. One would think these professionals would be fully congnitant of the ethical delema that they are in. In stead the more I talk with them the more I realize that for the most part they are oblivious to the harm and problem they are createing. It is much easier to make shit up and pay lip-service to the science they should have learn in school. It is also easier to blame the patient for treatmant failure… no other field of medicine does that. No other field of medicine also do not abtuptly discharge patients for exhibiting the behavior (relapse) that brought them to treatment in the first place…. these is like telling a Schizophrenic to get out of the hospital for having or developing new hallucinations while in the hospital. Or much worse is abruptly discharging a cancer patients from a hospital when their cancer gets worst.

      The fact is that the stigma and outright racist type discrimination exsist toward these type of pstients. No one seem to advocate. Another fact is that these abruptly discharging patients for treatment is against the law in all of the states of the United State but I have never heard of a patient pressing charges toward a facility or physician. The shame and blame created by treatment staff against a relapsing patient is most likely the reason most patients do not know about or have taken any legal action. For your information I suggest that you (we) look into the Patient Abandonment Law of your state. It is most likely to benefit you or someone that have been wrongly discharge from treatment.

      But what is.much worse is that these licensing boards are not taking any steps and most likely will not take any steps to correct these horrinendable conditions within the professions.

      This leavs the field of law open to take strong actions against members of my profession. Am a retire Mental Health Counselor in Florida. Twelve step treatment is nothing short of pseudoscience

  41. It is obvious that Robin Williams was not “happy, joyous and free” in the picture of him at an AA meeting. I do not believe that the negative ego deflation that he was going through in AA was a good choice. Interestingly the members of AA did not try to figure out what went wrong but they did try to cover up Robin’s attendance at AA and even went to the media to complain about it being noted. This of course was blamed on Tradition 10 ““Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on out- side issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.” but the thing is that it was an inside issue that needed to be told and shown, AA members even pulled Tradition 11 “Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.” but you can bet that AA members would have broken anonymity using Robin as a poster child of the program.if they thought it would grow the cult….

    “CBS Takes Heat for Interviewing Man Who Attended AA Meetings with Robin Williams”
    by Matt Wilstein | 5:30 pm, August 12th, 2014

    “During CBS This Morning’s coverage of Robin Williams’ suicide Tuesday, the network aired a short interview with a San Francisco news photographer who said he attended Alcoholics Anonymous meetings with the actor just weeks before his death. After numerous complaints from viewers, the local CBS station where the report originated has edited the online article to remove all mentions of the AA program, which, as its name suggests, prohibits attendees from revealing names of fellow addicts. ”


    …So, Cancel your island vacation and read ‘,The Acceptance’ prayer. And remember this program has brought you such joy!!

    • Never enjoy your life again lest your “disease” takes you ‘out.’

      What a crock of BillShit.

      • Exactly…ONE OG THE MOST VICIOUS THINGS THAT the groups do is tell people that have been abstinent in any respect, are NOT REALLY SOBER…
        AND WORSE…

        When I was in the group, I was so scared of living. I got a boyfriend and never was told they were happy for me. I got phone call after phone call of people scared for me because I got into a relationship. I had been sober for 8 years already. None of the rules were for Single people. I had to be abstinent from sex for one year. Married people were aloud to have sex. You WEREN’T aloud to get involved with someone from your own room. If you dated some one from the real world, it was a sign you were going to slip.
        .,..it was THE DISEASE talking.

        • You can never be happy again! Fuck you, you’re an “alcoholic!”

          What’s really crazy about all the sex stuff is that it’s been clearly documented that their guru-leader-bill-conman was the biggest womanizer of them all and needed a babysitter at all times to stop him from assaulting all the new women! He blamed his cheating on his “disease” and all his fawning disciples hung on his every word.

          “Old timers” in this cult are the most despicable people of all since they have power they use againast everyone else to build themselves up… when they’re nothing but frauds. A recipe for disaster if there ever was one.

          The sexual assaults and thought-stopping control tactics will never stop as long as the brainwashing hold the culture hostage.

    • excellent observation, Aimee!

      • Thanks… always a Catharsis!!

      • The longer the program goes on, the STRICTER IT GETS…In comparison, look at the Religious groups in your own Community that keep adding on new customs that you know, weren’t around when you were younger. It somehow make you more qualified, if you are more strict.
        How many people do you know that kept relapsing so THEY JOINED A STRICTER 12 STEP GROUP? AND THE STRICTER GROUPS HAVE MORE PRESTIGE…
        I think this is the reason that substance abusers get tortured in rehab
        CASE IN PT…
        DR. BOB WOULD KNOCK PEOPLE OUT FIR A WEEK… COMPLETELY COMOTOSE, SO THAT THEY DIDNT HAVE TO EXPERIENCE WITHDRAWAL. Now, I understand that you don’t want to give the same.drugs that your abusing, to get over withdrawal, but…
        Sleep heals…
        This all seems unorthodox but it’s true. I would bet that everyone on this site has been TERRIFIED OF NOT SLEEPING AND THAT IF SOMEONE HELPED THAT ON, THEY WOULDN’T BE DO SCARED. I know personally, because I had the PRIVILEGE of getting through Alcohol withdrawal, by being sedated for 2 weeks.
        They are finally learning that with Heroin withdrawal. But, the rooms are against, what they see as “THE EASY WAY”…

        • And when someone dies they blame the victim with the horrific, “some must die so that others can live?!?!” Are you fucking kidding me?!

          Right after Prince died, Steven-Cult-Asshole-oldtimer-Tyler made it all about him and his “disease!” Of course he did the prick.

          Here’s what I wrote about that shit; https://12stepcultreligionexposed.wordpress.com/2016/04/28/steven-tyler-makes-princes-death-all-about-steven-tyler/

          • 12 step groups are intellectually and spiritually impoverished and, at worst, are intellectually and spiritually corrupt, deceptive and non-virtuous.

            In addition, 12 step groups create an emotionally and mentally unhealthy environment. What does it benefit a person to hold onto -and embrace- the belief that they’re diseased, sick, insane, not wired right, unable to think straight and powerless to have any control over their own lives?

            Especially when they’re many years away from their “last drink or drug?”

            Why would anyone want to constantly focus on the misery of a dreary and blighted alcohol/drug addled past? Why would anyone want to spend so much time confessing [sharing] character defects, personality flaws, failures and mistakes and then pretend that they are ‘Portals’ to discovery that lead to spiritual progress? That’s childish nonsense.

            It’s very odd to do that. It’s dystopian in nature. For me, the portals of discovery are reality, truth, reason, logic, success, soundness and virtue.

            Why would anyone want to constantly [on a daily basis] relive the desolate and bleak experiences of a fractured and dismal past? It’s senseless and shameful. It doesn’t help anyone.

            The AA (12 step) Disease Model Doesn’t Work— It Even Does More Harm than Good. It sets people up for failure. It makes matters worse than they are.
            It stigmatizes people for life.

            And WORST of all, it brutalizes and brainwashes the young.

            It destructively presents the alcoholic or addict as someone to emulate. It ignores the rest of the person’s problems in favor of blaming them all on the addiction. It traps people in a world inhabited by fellow deluded “powerless-fake-brain-disease-sufferers.”

            The only reason to claim to have a “pretend” disease is to escape accountability for one’s own bad choices

            There is no good reason to label yourself or people you know as forever marked by an addictive “disease.” Challenging this useless folklore is the first step toward understanding addiction and doing something about it.

            Convincing people that they are lifelong “addicts” without free will is the best way to prevent their recovery.

            That means-don’t brainwash people into believing they have a [FAKE] progressive brain disease & don’t bulldoze & bully them into a fictitious belief in a powerless existence.

            • Perfectly stated. It’s all so wrong. And when you point out the truth to people in the cult who still claim it “helps” them, there is no winning here. They would rather avoid responsibility for their lives than admit they are stuck in a powerless hell of their own making.

  43. To all friends who are (temporarily) addicted to substances and to all my fellow EX-drug abusers and EX-problem drinkers please remember this:

    1) We are not now–and never have been- powerless over substances. Nor are we powerless over “people, places, and things” as juvenile 12 steps group preach ceaselessly.

    2) WE don’t have-and never have had – a brain disease that causes addiction or that’s caused by addiction. That’s a ridiculous proposition mainstreamed by Nora Volkow who reinvented the disease theory of addiction as a function of neuroscience and positioned herself as the international go-to source on addiction.

    Neuroscience’s chronic brain disease model has produced no useful diagnostic or treatment tools for addiction, even as it expands endlessly before us. Natural recovery from drug addiction and alcoholism is the norm, often without abstinence, completely undercutting the “chronic, relapsing brain disease” meme.

    3) We are not now-and never have been- spiritually deficient. This again is the fantasy land childish nonsense propagated by 12 step groups in order to subjugate and control their members.

    The (so called spiritual) 12 steps are used to convince millions, when they are at their most vulnerable due to personal crises, that the 12 steps are God’s latest revelation, above and beyond Christianity and other religions.

    In absolute belief in their SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE of God, members put the groups above scientific scrutiny and intellectual analysis.

    4) We are not now-nor have we ever been- VICTIMS of a genetic inheritance that predestines us to be addicts.

    To 12step con artists — Stop lying to people and stop trying to destroy them..
    To 12 step members—-Stop whining about being a victim.Take responsibility for your actions. Stop believing the control freaks at these 12 step meetings and their confederates in the treatment industry.

    We don’t have a brain disease, we’re NOT POWERLESS and we’re NOT spiritually deficient !

    In truth, we have power beyond measure…. It is the pleasure of the weak-minded and brainwashed to try to take our power from us.

    Don’t allow them to do this!

    • Well said!
      Thank you.


      THATS CRAZY!!!
      FEEL JOY






      • It’s by design that they render you perpetually “powerless.” They need to get members to give up their innate power to the cult to keep the “rooms” full.

        They will never change the steps to reflect temporary powerlessness. It’s diabolical.

  44. Somewhere I heard that “your best thinking got you here”, as part of an AA reading. This is entirely not true, my best thinking was distorted by alcohol which without my life would have taken a different direction altogether, I may never know my best thinking again because of all the irreparable damage that alcohol has done. The best I can hope for is to resolve what’s happened to myself and others and begin again anew. Stop doing what doesn’t work and do what does.

    • Thank you so much for taking the time to comment Brian.

      What this cult religion is doing is disempowering members by brainwashing them into believing your “best” thinking is your perpetual enemy, whether intoxicated or not. This is abusive and completely wrong. Your WORST thinking led you to self-medicate with alcohol. Your best thinking is your friend. This cult will convince you into believing that you cannot trust your instincts, rather than remind you of the truth… you are powerful beyond measure. They will keep “the roomz” full and suck the life out of you at the very expense of your life.

      Once you discover why and what you’re trying to self medicate by drinking to excess, you will make better choices. Once you are empowered to know yourself and honor your past without condemning yourself for it, you will treat yourself with the love and care you deserve. Once you learn to treat yourself with the compassion you obviously hold for others, you will find that you no longer need to check out with any substance or behavior or relationship.

      I wholly disagree with you that you may never know your best thinking again… you know enough to question the idea that your best thinking is your perpetual enemy and to take the time to express yourself right now. Your best thinking is clearly in tact.

      If your “irreparable damage” is behavioral, it is completely reparable. Forgive yourself. Love your journey. Give the same room for growth to yourself that you give to others. Just stay away from the disempowering 12 step cult religion. No one, as lovely as you, benefits from the the dogma of this diabolical cult.

      Thanks again for taking the time to care for yourself.

  45. Found in The Doctor’s Opinion: “They are restless, irritable and discontent…”. The chances are very good that is you do not experience those feelings, at least some of the time, you have absolutely no idea of what is going on in the world. How many times have I heard AAers proclaim proudly that they refuse to be bothered by news or any form of worldly awareness, because they would risk a dent in their “happy, joyous and free” ignorant empty minds!
    I too really tried to fit the AA mold but ultimately, my “Higher Power” (the one that is just above my neck) would not allow it. So refreshing to read these intelligent and validating comments.

    • It’s the human condition to feel all these perfectly normal feelings. Difference is… In the 12 step cult religion, you stay in negative feelings and self-fulfilling prophesies for all eternity based on your identify as an “alcoholic.” A fake disease of fatality if you even think about thinking for yourself.

      It’s also perfectly normal to feel actual joy but in the 12 step cult religion, you have to “act as if” since your “best thinking” is your perpetual enemy.

      It’s a clusterfuck of powerless BillShit with no way out but more meetings and more brainwashing and endless recruiting till the day you die and, like guru Wilson, beg for whiskey on your death bed.

      Fuck that! Your brain is indeed well and more than capable of taking care of you. Nice work!

  46. Brilliant, thanks!

  47. Quite prozaeck. I was hurled into AA and the twelve step “religion”. It only served to enforce my alcoholic familial comforts.
    For me: it did not curb my alcoholic tendencies. I found myself more comfortable with the family. Even now I am in a place with others who know my nature.

  48. I’m glad I found this article. I used to go to AA and had been going for nearly 10 years when I realized I was generally being abused, used, ridiculed and generally being ignored. I voiced my own feelings to my sponsor about certain things but was generally dismissed. Plus, I didn’t really feel like I fiited in anyway and Christ knows I tried to brainwash myself into thinking I did. During the course of the program, especially step 4 & 5, I found out that any fears I had were all generated from alcoholic/ heavy drinking behaviours of others, including being mentally & emotionally neglected or abused by alcoholic family members when I was a kid. I also discovered I do suffer with anxiety/depression mainly brought on by living with people using and abusing alcohol keeping me awake. Lack of sleep is my dilemma! And has been for years. During my fearless and moral inventory of myself I discovered that I didn’t really do much wrong in my behaviour towards others either. I didn’t chase money, power or sex either. It’s up to me really to find the things I enjoy doing and the people I want to be around thereby empowering myself and making myself happy. But all that aside, it was a good place to start when all the chips were down and I’d nowhere else to go but it’s not for me to carry that message. I’m far more happy without it and haven’t been to many meetings over the last 4 years and none in the last year. I haven’t felt much of a fellowship or kinship with any of them unfortunately despite meeting some folk who were decent to me. I would love to see or discover real life meetings about recovering from AA as well. I also believe now that if I did really want to feel I belonged somewhere it’d probably be in Al-Anon but that’s another 12 step thing.

    • Hi Chris. Thank you so much for taking the time to comment. It’s for people like you that I expose this cult for the harm it induces on members and society at large.

      Since I spend the vast majority of my time as a clinician helping people to deprogram from the 12-step cult, I know precisely from whence you speak. To go from “I was being neglected and abused” to “thank God for the program” is a sure sign of the brainwashing. They did a fine job brainwashing you. But keep in mind, it is not your fault.

      You genuinely are “too smart for the program.” They would have you believe that you cannot trust your own ability to think for all eternity, when in reality, you are smarter than they anticipate (or hope) you to be. They would have you “carry the message” no matter what your innate instincts are advising you to do. They would have you defend the program against your own best interests. Forever and ever amen.

      You need help with depression and anxiety and long-term environmental stress, and you need to find peace so that you can sleep and get the rest and reflection that you so deeply deserve. The last thing you need is to “find your part” in the past where people were disrupting your sense of security and abusing you as a child. You have “no part” in that and for this cult to infer that you do is the ultimate abuse on top of abuse on top of abuse. It never ends. Of course you don’t “fit in!”

      I disagree that the 12 step cult was a good place to start. You’re smarter than they give you credit. You were ready to make some behavioral changes and you did. Take the credit you deserve. Get your sleep, get your rest, and nurture yourself to optimal emotional and physical health. As Soon as you start taking care of yourself, You invite others to support you in this most important self-care venture. Stepper disciples only care about you as long as you are “one of us.”

      Good for you for getting out of this despicable cult religion known as the 12 steps. Now you can model that behavioral choice for those decent people who are still stuck in the 12-step cult religion just as you were at one time. But your job is only to change yourself and you’re obviously on the right path to do just that.

      Be well and thanks again for commenting.

      – Laura

  49. THANK YOU!! AA ruins lives! You are an angel for exposing those people and saving those thinking of joining!

    • Yes indeed Ellen. Thank you for taking the time to comment. You would think people would be thrilled to find out they are not “diseased” and get their power back. The fact that so many brainwashed Steppers rail against the truth should come as an enormous red flag for them!

  50. I have tried it…I figured if I were being forced to attend,I mind as well give it a shot. I was so beaten down at that time, that I would’ve done anything suggested..even if I didn’t really agree with it at all. I was told, my best thinking got me there, that I was powerless and that my character is defective. I was also told the only way to recover was to pray and do the 12 steps…and that if it didn’t work..it was my fault. I was told not to even speak at meetings, for a year. I was told that taking certain medications wasn’t really being sober.. But other meds were just fine. I had to get down on my knees and pray to God every day and night…Any God would be fine. If I questioned any of it..I was met with hostility and more platitudes. I still kept going..worked with my sponsor and honestly did those steps…until I just couldn’t take it anymore.

    • Thank you for describing the program so well Tracy. They try to destroy people so that they can feel as if their meaningless lives have meaning. They destroy people who are so vulnerable they’ll do anything they’re told to do. They distance you from all your friends and family in order to have ultimate control over you. They blame you for any abuse you’ve suffered in your past by forcing you to focus on “your part.” They force you to focus on you life as if you are nothing but character defects and personality shortcomings. You can never again feel good about yourself. They strip you of all your innate power and then when you “relapse” they place all the blame on you, never their “perfect program.” Even when members die, they blame the member, never their wholly disempowering program. They break you down for all eternity.

      But you GOT OUT. You are strong enough to know this cult religion is deadly to the soul and you obviously tried harder than most powerful people. You can be PROUD of yourself! Now, you can say that you tried and it failed YOU… just as it fails everyone. Only those that allow the deep brainwashing stay to chant the chants and repeat the mantras and force this cult on the next person. So, be PROUD.

      Also, you may love the book linked below. It explains exactly how they do it and the author won his lawsuit against the state for forcing him into a cult religion. He held hands and chanted the chants and then he got a good lawyer… and he succeeded. It’s a brilliant self-published work.

      Don’t let anyone tell you that you didn’t do the “programme” right or that they benefited from it and don’t know what you’re talking about or any or nonsense blaming you for “it” not working for you. They’re just dead wrong and have been brainwashed to defend the indefensible.

      Thanks again for taking the time to comment. Be well.


  51. OMG This AA/NA CULT for 25 years has come through my life like a fucking freight train and destroyed me/my life, I’ve been raped by men in the program, stolen from, traumatized by finding “so called friends dead” women haves dissed me because of my appearance, men won’t leave me alone and act like dogs in heat because of it. I lost a license in the medical field for forgery of RX due to the “Brainwashing ” I had NO CONTROL over my thinking that I would just act out and do it before I had time to think and put it in my system which was different than an average person, because I had a “disease ” and my body was mentally and physically different than then the regular person I went to prison over my prescription forgery, I carried my BABY thru prison and was HIGH RISK after having 5 miscarriages. I was deathly ill to the point I was given 1st time EVER IN HISTORY OF BENTON COUNTY ARKANSAS A FURLOUGH ONCE A WEEK FOR 6 hours to leave the correctional facility and go see my private OBGYN due to the risk of losing my child inside me. A horrible pregnancy in prison no pillows small hard mats, horrible prison food, and all because someone didn’t do their job at the parole board I got my parole plans back (T.E. Date) and it was said to be a RE-WRITE which meant they kicked it back out to be reviewed in 30days then we would get our plans back 2 weeks after that. My baby was due in 6 days, I was supposed to get out in 3…. My whole family was in hysterics. I was going to have my baby chained to a hospital bed w/a prison guard w/me around the clock for 3 days and then have to have my 3 day old newborn torn away from his momma and me from him, my son sent home with my family, traumatizing both Mother and baby…. I would have gone back from a C-Section w/Toxemia put in Isolation for recovery (Which is the hole) and given Ibuprofen, then let out after 3 days to go back to my Unit and resume normal duties w/the rest of the other General inmate population. I am now a felon. That was 21 years ago, my son is 19 he was taken away from me at 2, because I was brainwashed into thinking I was “Powerless” over pain medication that if I took it my life would immediately go unmanageable and hit rock bottom well when ur brainwashed u act out the behaviors u expect their supposed to be….. so my son hates me, my whole family has ostracized me. I’ve now hit my last bottom and it’s with a HORRIBLE small group here in Central AR where they will love u until u love urself yeh, love u to DEATH!!!

    I was left in the hospital w/ no way to get home, I’m passing kidney stones right now in EXCRUCIATING PAIN!!!!!!! I was diagnosed Bipolar, have gotten off my meds per my sponser and wound back up in the hospital on the psych ward because someone in the program said if you will finish ur 4th step u won’t need antidepressants and mood stabilizers. do they know anything about mental illness such as Depression???? No!!!! I have physically suffered and mentally suffered on and off for 25 years, due to the shame and guilt of AA, and then “the medical real standpoint of what’s really wrong with me” I have no groceries, I can get nowhere, because my Honda Hybrid battery is dead….. I’m trapped I had to get an Ambulance to TAKE me there, finally 1 person from two different groups came and got me at 1:00 in the morning NO ONE WOULD COME GET ME OR TAKE!!!! Since I have chosen not to go back to AA in 1 month and I wont sleep with the men and kiss up to the women, NOT ANY OF MY SO CALLED PEEPS CARES IF I NEED HELP AND THEY KNOW OF THE DESPERATE SHAPE IM IN!!!!! 1 person!!!! VICKIE G… she is truly an angel, and u know why????? Because she’s truly a good person and is not a USER OR ABUSER, she’s a person they say they are in those room “Basically like the WELCOME WAGON AND RED CROSS FROM GOD HIMSELF” if you value YOURSELF YOUR SOUL, ANYTHING YOU HOLD NEAR AND DEAR TO YOU STAY AWAY FROM AA!!!!!! I could tell U HORRER STORIES UPON HORRER STORIES 1 story 2 different rehabs for example I went to, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS TRIED TO GET IN MY PANTS AND WERE DEALING DRUGS TO THE RESIDENTS!!!!!! I later heard 1 of them and since he is no longer alive, no I can’t for respect for children and family won’t mention his name. HE wound up COMMITTED SUICIDE BY HANGING HIMSELF!!!!!! So now I pray for EACH AND EVERY SINGLE 1 of YOU WHOSE LIFE HAS BEEN DESTROYED BY AA OR NA!!! I WILL BE PRAYING FOR U PLEASE BE PRAYING FOR ME BECAUSE AFTER MY KIDNEY STONE PASSES I REFUSE TO EVER EVER EVER AGAIN SUFFER PHYSICALLY OR MENTALLY BECAUSE I WAS TOLD BAAAAAAD TANYA U TOOK A PILL FOR PAIN IR FOR EMOTIONAL REASONS BECAUSE U DIDNT FINISH UR 4TH STEP, NOW TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR UR SHAMEFUL, HORRIBLE, AWFUL, TERRIBLE BEHAVIOR THAT IS A DISEASE THAT IS EQUIVALENT TO CANCER THAT U CANT HELP………WHAT????? Talk about CRAZYMAKING????? Be ashamed and take accountability by showing u r weak and failed and have to START all over again because you were a baaaaaad girl so u get a silver chip but keep being a good girl, and stay clean and sober and every 30 days you will get a new colored chip and we have birthday 🎉 night and celebrate birthdays of clean or sober time w/a guest speaker Hooray!!! Let’s get brainwashed some more.!!! I’m sickened knowing I’ve suffered mentally and physically from these psychopathic misfits who have nothing better to do or go but to go to places where people are vulnerable and temporarily lost and r looking for help just don’t know what’s wrong unfortunately get caught up with a member and get sucked in, I’m almost dead, but I’m coming back, NOT with some freaking “Tree or doorknob as my higher power” But God as my Lord and Savior.

    • You are powerFULL beyond measure. ALWAYS remember that.

      Thanks so much for commenting. Your stories are all-too-common occurrences. The good news is knowing that the vast majority of people who get free from the 12 step cult religion flourish better than ever… after taking their unlimited power BACK. Nice job. Those cult disciples only care about you as long as you’re “one of us.”

      Onward and upward!

  52. According to SAMSHA (A US government site about Substance Abuse and Mental Health) there are 4 sections to effective recovery. Unfortunately all 4 sections are counter intuitive to tenements and culture of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA).

    Health—overcoming or managing one’s disease(s) or symptoms and making informed, healthy choices that support physical and emotional well-being.
    Home—having a stable and safe place to live.
    Purpose—conducting meaningful daily activities and having the independence, income, and resources to participate in society.
    Community—having relationships and social networks that provide support, friendship, love, and hope.

    While outwardly and through inspection, Health may appear to be a major component of Alcoholics Anonymous in reality it is not. The same thing can be said about Scientology since they both claim that you will be able to make better choices. This has been proven time and time again in the concept of powerlessness, which often results in the a sense of tearing down of the emotional well-being of the individual. This is seen in the physical toll of both AA and Scientology which in the early and mid journey to the finding of Spirituality, many people die from too quick of a withdraw. Both cults cull the heard so to speak and leave “Gurus” to teach the newcomer how to self flagellate their physical and emotional well-being. Of course the “Gurus” feel they are superior taking control of the newcomer. In AA it is the concept of time clean and in Scientology it is the level of reaching a state called “Clear”.

    As for having a stable and safe place to live, we have seen over and over again that AA sober homes and Scientology classes and retreats can end up in disaster. This appears to be due to self appointed (or cult appointed in “Gurus” in Scientology).

    In the case of “Purpose” where it is claimed that the “Gurus” will gain independence, income and resources, this is true. Albeit this only comes from running Sober Homes (Indoctrination Centers) in AA or Scientology run businesses.

    Community is provided, but at what cost? In AA and Scientology you do get support, friendship, love and hope, but then again only is you go on the hunt for newcomers and perform though conversion on them. Those that are not converted are considered failures and part of the collateral damage done during the conversion process.

    • The support, friendship, love, and hope one gets in the 12 step cult religion is absolutely conditional on the member never questioning the mandates of the cult but on those very mandates of “powerlessness-characterdefects-personalityshortcomings-moraldefective-godworship-disease” BillShit being the forefront of the members daily life’s work. Not to mention the constant recruiting required to keep the cult full.

      That’s not support. That’s imprisonment. That’s not friendship. That’s abuse. That’s most certainly not love. And I wholly disagree… there is no hope in the 12 step cult religion. There’s only despair covered in pseudo “fellowship.” Don’t be fooled by members insistence on their “support” getting and giving. They are not supported. They are brainwashed for life.

  53. Where have all of the anti-aa activists gone? This is a hard question to to answer and quantify. It could be that many have just crumbled fighting the juggernaut cult known as Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). Their used to be dozens of sites warning people about the the corporation that claims it’s not a corporation ( Corporate ID EIN. 04-3167168) that supposedly practices attraction and not promotion while it actively pursues it’s pigeons in the court systems, hospitals and rehabs with highly trained AA slogan repeaters. They (AA) claim to be a non profit with no financial agenda yet they spawn into $1000 a day rehabs for the “free” AA treatment that they claim in the is not caused by them (AA).

    If your life and family have been attacked by the cult commonly referred to as Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) I implore you to speak up on message boards or to open up a website.

    • Thank you JR for continuing to fight this insurmountable fight. Most people do exactly as you state, they give up and try to carry on with their lives. Smashing one’s head against the wall of brainwashing that comes with the 12 step cult religion is a losing battle.

  54. I think part of the issue is the definition of being an “Alcoholic”. People in general use that term as a weapon to demean and denigrate any possible person they think as a threat (for whatever reason) very loosely. It is ingrained in the media and as we all know very hard to prove so people weaponize the term to cause havoc in other peoples lives.

    Depending upon where you look “Alcoholics” make up 6% of the population (https://www.learn-about-alcoholism.com/statistics-on-alcoholics.html) all of the way up to 33% of the population (https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/11/20/365500037/moderate-drinker-or-alcoholic-many-americans-fall-in-between). It is a very wide spread and a very large net that people can pull from. Look at almost any TV show or newspaper and the term is thrown around as attacks on others peoples character all of the time. Why is this?

    • As for a show with ratings, it’s for dramatic effect. Make a villain an “alcoholic/addict” and you’ve got a shortcut for the hero. Make the hero a member of the 13 step cult religion and you’ve got a sympathetic hero with a “disease.” It’s just lazy writing.

      As for the 12 step cult religion, it’s for disempowering as many people into disciplehood as quickly as possible since the vast majority of people leave the cult after 3 months and even more dwindle off after one year of this garbage. They simply MUST keep the revolving door moving for survival.

      Then there’s the fact that the powers-that-be in the entertainment industry are looking for a way to control their “talent” during the course of shooting, they use the 12 step cult religion to temporarily control their fake disease to get the film/show made as quickly as possible. Time is money and their product-talent are of no value to producers if they’re partying too much. Of course, they ALL imbibe once they’ve wrapped but they’re not ABOUT to expose the truth of their little cult-control which would affect their bottom line. They also love this faith-worshipping BillShit just as much as the next immature bonehead walking around half cocked.

      • I believe that labeling yourself as an Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) member goes a little deeper than people realize. It (AA) appears to be a good marketing ploy for both movie and politicians that are trying to to boost ratings and votes.

        When an actor or politician outwardly announces to the world that they are an alcoholic and a member of AA the AA club houses are all over it and repeat it in an attempt to “spread the word”. In the US there are approximately 1.2 million AA members, but that is the tip of the iceberg. For each AA member they have at least 5 other concerned close people that they will interact with each day. These could be mothers, fathers, siblings, friends or the “Pidgin Hunters” sent out by the coven to find new recruits. I believe that in the US it sways the votes (for movie, TV and political parties) by an approximate value of at least 7 million. The problem is that unlike what AA says, they do promote an agenda.

        While it is true that many AA members in the beginning (court ordered) temporarily loose the right to vote, their well meaning “friends” often listen to them and watch movies, TV shows and follow the politicians they mention in a show of support. All an actor or politician has to do is claim to be an alcoholic or a member of AA to manipulate this demographic to their advantage, and it is “free” publicity.

        I can’t even remember all of the times when an AA drone brings in a news clipping or video for other people to watch. This also invariably ends up in the clubs newsletter which then ends up in libraries, community centers, town halls, coffee shops, etc…The amount of “free” advertising this generates is extremely hard to calculate but I will say it is much larger than 7 million.

  55. I think the major draw for Alcoholics Anonymous and other cults is the promise of being able to find “God.”

    “Remember that we deal with alcohol—cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power—that One is God. May you find Him now!”

    Source: The Cult Manual commonly called “The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous” (ISBN 1893007162) Pg. 59 Chapter 5 “How it Works:” 4th Edition

    (Please remember that the ISBN number is different for different formats such as kindle, large print, edition number etc… and Bill Wilson came upon this “revelation” while on the powerful hallucinogenic Belladonna Atropa. )

  56. Why hasn’t anyone explored the the role of President Lyndon Johnson in the formation of AA. Joe Miller has in his new book “US of AA: How the Twelve Steps Hijacked the Science of Alcoholism”

    “Alcoholism was finally declared a disease in the late 1960s, not by doctors or the AMA, but by President Lyndon Johnson, who by then had been part of the organization for 20 years. Funding in the millions began to flow from federal coffers to agencies and commissions led by AA supporters. The focus was almost entirely on total abstinence as the only treatment. But as the rest of the world knew, that’s not true, not what it looks like, and not how it works.” (Source: https://medium.com/the-straight-dope/has-aa-misdirected-alcoholics-for-90-years-5d8951c4a706).

  57. List of US Presidents and their alleged misuse of alcohol or drugs- Source culled from “A Complete Guide to the US Presidents and Their Drug and Alcohol Use ” at https://www.projectknow.com/a-complete-guide-to-the-us-presidents-and-their-drug-and-alcohol-use/

    George Washington (1789-1797) “Some reports say that he used laudanum”

    John Adams (1797-1801) “was known to enjoy alcohol, including beer, wine, and rum.”

    Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) “Unsubstantiated reports suggest the Thomas Jefferson grew poppy, from which opium is derived”

    Martin Van Buren (1837-1841) ” drank so much that his nickname was Blue Whiskey Van.”

    Franklin Pierce (1853-1857) ” when his term of presidency was over, he said: “There is nothing left… but to get drunk.”

    James Buchanan (1857-1861) “He reportedly could drink several bottles of alcohol in the course of an evening.”

    Chester A. Arthur (1881-1885) “was a heavy drinker, and it affected his health.”

    Grover Cleveland (1885-1889) ” reportedly drank four to eight beers a day, and his stomach showed it.”

    Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945) “did drink, though it is unclear how much. His favorite drink was said to be scotch or brandy. During his presidency, prohibition was repealed.

    Harry S. Truman (1945-1953) “drank in moderation, and he preferred wine and bourbon.”

    John F. Kennedy (1961-1963) ” associates of Kennedy say that he used LSD and marijuana. He also enjoyed cigar smoking, and he did drink. It should be noted that Kennedy’s father made most of the family fortune during prohibition by selling bootleg liquor.”

    Richard M. Nixon (1969-1974) “was a frequent drinker, particularly in the evening. There are conflicting reports about Nixon’s supposed use of the drug phenytoin, an anti-seizure drug sometimes sold as Dilantin. ”

    Gerald R. Ford (1974-1977) “a social drinker, and he reportedly favored gin and tonic. He also smoked eight pipes of tobacco a day.”

    Bill Clinton (1993-2001) “there was some debate about his reported use of marijuana as a young man. He insisted that while he did smoke it, he did not inhale. There are rumors that Clinton used cocaine at some point, but those are unverified.”

    George W. Bush (2001-2009) ” He was known to drink heavily in his youth, and he is reported to have used cocaine prior to 1974.”

    Barack H. Obama (2009-Present) “as a young man, he reportedly used marijuana and cocaine and at times drank heavily. He used to smoke, but reportedly quit after promising his wife he would do so before his run for president in 2008.”

    • Thank you JR.

      We can only imagine the pharmaceutical drugs this current orange menace leader is popping down his throat every day! But the point is… people use drugs! “Misuse” is for the user to decide for themselves rather than a dangerous cult religion setting standards based on one white guru’s outrageous ego.

  58. I wrote The New Twelve Steps a long time ago at a bagel shop in Boston. I was homeless at the time and staying st The New England Center for Homeless Veterans. Most was written out of sarcasm, but ultimately it makes a ton of sense. You have to confront these people, whether it be online, metaphorically in writing… You have to see the hypocrisy in order to break free. The best way to identify their hypocrisy is to confront them directly on their nonsense and just watch the accusations fly.

    • DTQ! Thanks again for allowing me to republish your brilliant work. You may have written it as sarcasm but you are a GENIUS!

      You’d think Stepper disciples would see their rabid anger at the truth as an enormous red flag but all they do is attack with BillShit.

      Thanks so much for commenting. ❤️

  59. Brilliant. I wish I could’ve convinced my ex-girl of the damage AA causes. Even before I found you blog, last week on the phone I said to her “I’ve seen 12 Step destroy relationships, blood families, long term – And that’s about as far as I got before she screamed at me “I’m hanging up this fucking phone!!” That was the last time I heard her voice. 12 Step always talks about setting boundaries and I’m setting some new ones myself. Allow me to add a 13th Step to your list: “Never again will I allow Zombie Steppers anywhere near my life. I am a good man with a kind heart, and you can take your “amends” and fuck off with it. I had my OWN awakening.”

    • Steppers give only lip service to “boundaries” in order to brainwash people into thinking they are practicing self-care when they are only being forced blind loyalty to a dangerous cult religion. Practing boundaries is a powerful habit to learn but in this cult, they only learn mind-control without ever moving to new behavioral and cognitive changes. After all, if they ever even question the cult dogma they will end up in three and ONLY three places – say it with me “jail, institutions, or dead.”

      She was deeply triggered by the truth that she then blamed on you. Fuck that! It’s so typical of 12 step cult disciples since they are always wrong while their cult is always right. It’s all by design to keep the cult alive at the expense of the lives of anyone unfortunate enough to step foot “in the rooms.” Go with god motherfuckers. You’ve got far better people which to surround your loving self!

  60. Thank you for this post and this website. The more people speak up the more public awareness will build up that this cult is harming people, directly when they are lured into membership and indirectly through spreading their harmful beliefs throughout the treatment industry!! They pretend to want to do good but they only do good for a few who play the game and talk the talk to gain power over others in those groups and as newly (poorly) trained “addiction counselors”!

  61. The first step is to walk away and never attend any AA, Al-Anon or Alateen meetings again. Find something else to do in the evenings so that you are too busy to miss the meetings. Then carry out the twelve steps described in the article to prevent bringing AA ideas into other organisations such as churches and mental health charities. I have seen too many of those AA ideas in those places and it was helpful to visit the Orange Papers website and other websites dedicated to exposing AA and Al-Anon as a cult to find out what they were so I could recognise them. Those on recovery programmes and in rehab often trot out generalised glib phrases and when you ask them to be be more specific they keep repeating those phrases rather than explain them.

      • I need to recognise the negative effects of AA and other 12 step programs as the same glib slogans and attitudes have slipped into fundamentalist churches (or maybe they came from there in the first place) and also into state funded mental health support groups and job centre programs. Some of the rules are what the ruling classes have mandated for the peasant classes through religion and laws for centuries but that the ruling classes don’t follow themselves. Now they have been repackaged over and over again and I dare say in large group awareness training such as the EST or the Landmark Forum as it is now called.

        On job search courses I’ve heard the mantra ‘the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results’ over and over again. There is no nuance in that. When learning a skill such as dancing sometimes you have to repeat the same steps over and over again before you can master them. And when you set up a new routine it is unfamiliar to you so you would find it more difficult at first and then it becomes easier and automatic over time. But that is only when you are doing the same routine several times and expecting different results. The proverb that contradicts this is ‘If at first you don’t succeed try and try again’.

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